Description: A workshop concerning the fundamentals of poetic meter.
Leader: Wesley Snow
Moderator(s): Rula, Judyanne
Objectives: For those who have found meter difficult in the past, this workshop will be a comprehensive attempt at solving the difficulty once and for all.
Level of expertise: Open to all
Subject matter: Poetic meter and its application.
Wes
Twelve inches one foot (Four inches one Hand)
Three feet one yard
Five and one half yards one rod, pole or perch
Five rods one chain (A cricket pitch)
Ten chains one furlong
Eight furlongs one mile,
One mile Equals 1760 Yards,
Where the hell are these meter things LOL,
I will be so interested to find out what they are,
Yours, Ian
see?
this is the kind of thing that made me despair on meter workshops.
You at least weren't as bad as Anna and Ephraim, Ian. They were positively aggressive to the whole concept.
Jess
I is just putting a smile on a difficult subject matter.
You also know I am bad at meter and always have a jab at it.
But I hereby promise to be a good boy for the rest of the Workshop which will start on 3rd March which is two weeks time.
You take care out there, I found a sense of humour box on "E" bay the other day but they wanted a life of experience for it so I passed.
Take care Yours, Ian (Still loves yu!!)
you fucked around with dumb puns in my previous meter workshops
I know you can do it, just take this one seriously.
I trust your abilities more than you do.
Do try to make some test recordings on www.vocaroo.com, for fun at first, then and post them with your meter exercises.
Jess
I still remember the Corner shop we wrote for meter in the workshop you ran, it was great and when Wesley's workshop starts I will be serious,
Meter teaches poets the correct poetic form
Each offering lends our phraseology a pathway
Teach my keys to flow in sequential freeways
Let the teacher teach me and let me listen
Yours as always Ian (Loves Yu)
Things been covered so far
As requested by Raj. I am herein accumulating in one thread what has been so far discussed and covered to be refered to easily. For details, please detect through the thread.
1-Rhythm vs. Meter
**Rhythm is the flow of the poem. It is how it gets from point A to point B and beyond. It is the sound of the poem. It is the music of the poem.
**Meter is a way by which we may DESCRIBE the rhythm of the poem.
2-Quantitative vs. Qualitative
**Quantitative is the meter of the ancient world. In this type of meter stresses are irrelevant. What varies the verse is the use of long and short vowel sounds.
**Qualitative is the meter of the modern era (beginning with the Renaissance) characterized by stressed syllables coming at regular intervals
3- The verse = one line in poetry
4- Types of meter depending on the Numbers of feet in one verse
* Unimeter is one foot for the verse.
* Bimeter is two feet for the verse.
* Trimeter is three feet for the verse.
* Tetrameter is four feet for the verse.
* Pentameter is five feet for the verse .
*Hexameter is six feet for the verse.
5-Types of meters so far discussed
*iambic (unstressed STRESSED
** anapest (unstressed unstressed STRESSED)
the length of each feet in terms of syllables
(iamb) two syllables unstressed STRESSED e.g / he LIVES/
(anapest) three syllables unstressed unstressed STRESSED / I be-LIEVE /
(trochee) two syllables STRESSED unstressed /TER-ror/
(dactyl) three syllables STRESSED unstressed unstressed / LI-mit-less/
to be updated accordingly
This is excellent.
Move it to the end please and I think I will use it as a springboard into Part Two.
Thanks Rula
Good to know my suggestion was found to be useful.
Regards,
Rula
I think you missed out to list Trochaic
intentionally Raj
Trochaic and dactyl will be part two of this workshop.
ok
Can I join
I'd be hurt if you didn't.
.
It has been
A while since I have tried meter. When does this start
Judy and I are in
aren't we dear judy?
right on Rula
xxx
Thank you
.
lol wes
Participants will be asked to work with a number of exerceses including writing verses in meterical arrangement.
Will we be doing exerceses in spelling too?
:}
xxx
If the meter works...
I don't care how anyone spells anything, but you watch me... I won't be able to help myself... I will correct bad spelling. It's a curse.
You are my moderator, so you have a certain amount of leeway on what you teach. Moderators should follow the leader's... um, lead, but if you don't add your own thoughts and perspectives then what good are you to have around.
Scan your face off and correct anything you find out of kilter.
Yes and you can start with me.
As Leader I will be uber focused on the subject at hand, but moderators have a little more leeway. It's a little like being a poet critiquing, but with authority. This is the Wading Pool, so I'm cutting major slack, but if we have typos and misspellings you need to call them on it.
I hate (I'm not kidding... I really hate) missing something in my proofread. It gives me the hives.
Oh Hell
All those super sonnet poets are going to join in and talk metric .
I shall get out my yard stick and wait till they make a mistake and beat hell out of them lol.
Oh, I do have a yard stick here, it was used for dress making when they measured the material..
Have a lovely day out there and great to see you all here meterically speaking, (New Word)
Yours, Ian..
Under the new type of Tyburn
Friendly
Meter
Poetry
Stanzas
Correct way is with Friendly Meter
When writing a good Poetry Stanza..
I know the damn words don't rhyme but it a damn good banner for this workshop lol that's why I called it a new Tyburn, back to the word board, the silly bulls is fine..
Love you all yours, Ian
Thank you Ian
This is a Sparrow's Tyburn. :)
Rula
Yes this is a new type of form a "Sparrows Tyburn"
The words don't have to rhyme but have to be incorporated in the last two lines of 9 silly bulls.
Love to all I suppose I will have to get serious when the workshop starts ???
Yours as always, Ian
Wes
can I join?
Alid
may I join?
I have studied meter and tried incredibly frustratingly to teach it in workshops. I wish you three all the best and will support all I can.
Plus I need the practice. That sonnet was harder than I thought it would be. Meter is not riding a bicycle, it needs constant practice and is, I think, the single most important and neglected aspect of poetic craft. It shits on rhyme for prosodic value.
If anybody
needs this shop, judging by my trouble with sonnets, I do. So should I bow out and continue in ignorance, declare that the U.S. never went metric so how does this affect me, or join in and at least TRY to get better?.....???? ..........................................long periods of intense indecision............................................Aw heck, why not? Count me in. If nothing else i can improve people's lung capacity by laughing at me lol.
welcome
Khalid
Jess and Stan
Well...
I guess that I could use some increase in my lung capacity, so I will join just so I can laugh at Stan!
Maybe Killer will come too, he needs the practice.
Thanks for inviting me, ~ Gee
You are welcome as hell.
.
I sort of gave Stan and Rula privileged information, so...
everyone should have it.
After a great deal of detailed discussion, the first exercise (see Judyanne? Me spel good) will be two verses of iambic pentameter. They need not rhyme. They need not make sense. Only the meter is important.
All will be explained before the exercise, but this gives you a head's up.
And since I have you: a "line" of poetry is a verse. "Verse" will be the term we use in this workshop, please.
Consider this fair warning.
The workshop begins on the third, but I will start tomorrow.
I have a few subjects to broach before we commence.
Welcome to all who dare.
Everyone needs to be on this thread.
Could we, as a community, inform some of our new poets and those of us having senior moments...
Where was I?
... that they need to leave a comment here to receive updates?
I am here...
Ready to tackle my old enemy meter
I
Purchased a new meter stick to replace my yard stick so now I have the correct stick with which to beat myself when I mess up.......stan
Stan
I may need to borrow that stick as you know how meter and I get along
Carrie
I'll not lend you that stick. Such is reserved for hard edged men like me lol. But in the event you Do need to beat yourself up, I'd be glad to lend a turkey feather instead.......stan
Stan
Thank you for having mercy on a meterless soul. I am sure Wesley will get out the appropriate beating stick when I go astray, LOL. I will tell him to see you for the feather first. :)
"A Comment"
There I have now carried out the task that Wesley asked fro if you have forgotten already he said Leave "A Comment" this I hope is directed at the new poets we have many of.
Now Stan, where did you get that new stick??
I have searched high and low even went on "E" bay to see if they had any but none.
I received the Arrow head in the post yesterday thank you, I have now reconstructed the whole thing and restrung my long bow to test it.
It would have been another story had the North American Indians had our long bow, it would have been the "United States of Apacheland"
Have a lovely weekend, I am off hunting grizzlies,
Yours Ian.. lol
Ian
I'm pleased you received that prize for having participated in the test contest which has led to having official contests.
As to the meter stick you have overlooked the obvious hiding place. They are usually on the back side of the yard stick lol.
Stan
I see you have one of those modern gadgets.
I have the real Ma-coy on the reverse it is inches but the other way, we is clever as you can put this stick down either way and it reads the same "Inches to the Yard ,lol its a - "Rabone Rule" wooden yardstick with brass ends made in Birmingham. many were made by prisoners in the USA - Wooden Yardstick Made in Michigan State Prison Industries..
Have a great day, Yours Ian
We will begin formal conversation on March third.
In the meantime I have some information to pass along that will aid us in discussing basic meter.
The first is Prosody.
Prosody (from the Greek) in linguistics is the rhythm, stress and intonation of speech.
The term is also used to describe the study of poetry and is related to the natural rhythm of prose as well, though not as commonly used in such a way).
To begin the study we must first understand “accentual-syllabic” verse which is a form of qualitative poetry. Accentual-syllabic verse describes the most common form of poetry written in English for at least a thousand years.
It places limits on both the stresses and syllables within a verse or stanza, usually requiring an even rhythm (we’ll talk about rhythm later).
Therefore we can create an unstress/stress unit (which we will call a foot), repeat it through the verse five times and we have iambic pentameter.
Accentual-syllabic verse.
We will return to this last later in more detail.
Until next time,
Rula gave us cool tips, but I’m dull, so I will give weird facts.
Fact number one: Iamb and anapest are known as rising meters as they rise from an unstressed syllable to a stressed. Dactyl and trochee are falling meters.
A suggestion
It is quite confusing and stressful to scroll up and down while searching specific examples provided by the WS Head and Moderators as one progresses through the WS. To make it easier, it would be good that right at the top of the stream each type of Meter is uploaded with an example. In other words, there should be a progressive summary in one place.
Regards,
Wesley, Rula and Judyanne
may I suggest we adopt a standard form for parsing? Which can be hard boring work, a chore, unless we use tricks to make it easier. It can be done in several ways.
Take this line of Iambic pentameter-
Shall I compare thee to a summers day?
we can parse with caps
Shall I | comPARE | thee TO | a SUMM | ers DAY?
this is really easily done in MS Word, you select the syllable and press Shift/F3, automatic caps! No retyping!
Or Bold the stressed syllables
Shall I/ compare/ thee to/ a summ/ers day?
This can be done in Word or even here in Neopoet if you choose Advanced formatting. Simply select the syllable and press Ctrl/B. Again no retyping.
Note that I have used / and | to separate feet. Either works, / is easier and requires less disruptive extra spacing, just choose a standard.
Hope this helps. It certainly helps me (I prefer the Bold and /), either way they require no typing. Just copy and paste the line then add spacers then formatting.
Jess
That's how I'm already doing it
With capitals
I'll use bold if everyone prefers
xxx
Caps or bold is equally easy
using Shift/F3 or Ctrl/B. The dividers concern me more. I feel that / disrupts the reading of the poem less than | which must have a space each side of it.
It's not just about making the meter clear, the form that allows the poem to be still readable is a factor. That's why I prefer Bold/ over CAPS |
I will conform to the consensus, of course, consistency being helpful to the poet whose work is being parsed.
I use
The 'change case' utensil, it's just as easy
but happy to do bold
And I do use the bar you prefer
xxx
My 2 cents
Using caps is easier for tech challenged folks like me
unless you insist on retyping,
which allows errors as we have seen, Ctrl/b is exactly as easy as Shift/F3 or the caps tool.
Ah
lazer transit is easier to use measuring distances than dragging survey rods too, but not if you don't know how to use it
Jess
Not usually my field the Parsing and Bold work, but have followed your instructions and it's great.
This is one thing that all poets should have, another thing to go on your new Neopoet information, tell them not to post to stream before doing this as it is a "Word" thing,
Yours Ian
Bill Gates is a cynical prick
much of his touted philanthropy was given to countries where Microsoft was about to launch.
My point? MS products are actually pretty good these days. It is so easy to learn keyboard shortcuts and useful tools, it is not like trying to learn Japanese when you are over 40 and your brain is not producing much acetylcholine, the neurotransmitter largely associated with learning, it is really easy. Click and drag to select, Ctrl/c to copy, Ctrl/x to cut to memory (very useful when editing), Ctrl/v to paste, Shift/F3 to convert to caps, Ctrl/b to make Bold.
No need for tech requirements, Ian, it is that fucking simple.
That is a great idea Jess
Let's see which one sir Wesley prefers. I'd follow.
Thank you.
Wes
BETTER use caps or I'll beat Him with a meter stick lol
Let's use caps
simply because we have more who can use them. Fewer are truly familiar with Advanced Formatting (sad that, actually). I like the slant / because I know where it is.
Is that good for everyone?
I'll follow
your model what ever it is sir.
Okay, here's a
question. Define meter. Is it the number of words or the syllable counts?
Alid
Alid
As best as i can muster two syllable is one foot. In case of iambic pentameter five two syllables with an unstressed - stressed sequence make an iambic pentameter
In simple terms
to start with, I'd say it is both the number and the order of the stressed/ unstressed syllables in a foot. what makes the meter and makes one meter different from another.
I am sure Wesley is going to add. Examples show better.
Thanks, Raj and Rula
I think I got it.
Alid
Patience children.
We don't begin until the third which brings me to lesson two of what we will study. Don't panic. This is just me mouthing off before we start. Alid, all your questions will be answered.
Quantitative vs. Qualitative.
It sounds worse than it is.
Quantitative is the meter of the ancient world. In this type of meter stresses are irrelevant. What varies the verse is the use of long and short vowel sounds (note I said “sounds” and not merely “vowel”. All consonants utilize a vowel sound), where a long vowel physically takes longer to say than a short vowel. “O” is a long vowel sound that is naturally stretched. “I” even with its diphthong is short. This is actually a very difficult way to write in English as it is not as “syllabic” as other of the Romance languages such as Ancient Greek or Latin. Also include in that list Italian, French and Spanish. They all use syllables in a “longer” way than English.
Qualitative is the meter of the modern era (beginning with the Renaissance) characterized by stressed syllables coming at regular intervals.
This will be the subject of Meter is your Friend Part One.
Stupid fact 2: Can you say Gilgamesh? It’s the oldest surviving poem in man’s possession.
Wesley asked me to repeat this comment from another thread.
There is a contradiction in terms when one says " it seems we always make changes in flow to sacrifice for meter. "
Correct meter IS flow.
This will become more clear in this workshop. When we learn to use meter, well, the learning process is often painful, whatever the subject. It will seem like many sacrifices of meaning, content, rhyme etc are made whilst learning the craft of meter. Then you can fuck with it. It's that old cliche "learn the rules in order to break them". Few of the really great form poets adhere strictly to meter because they know when they can break it without disrupting flow.
It goes so against the anarchistic grain of the poetic sensibility to learn "rules", true. Great sculptors must know when a piece is too structurally imbalanced to stand without breaking. Great musicians must know which succession of notes will create a pleasing effect in order to be able to create dissonant successions that won't make the listeners stick pencils in their ears.
Poetry is not a direct connection from brain to paper/screen. Skill, craft and knowledge allow that connection.
Thank you Jess.
Good commentary.
Everyone listening I hope?
I am
all is new re terminology.
Rhythm vs. Meter.
What is rhythm?
Rhythm is the way sound moves against the flow of time.
Rhythm is the flow of the poem. It is how it gets from point A to point B and beyond. It is the sound of the poem. It is the music of the poem.
All writing has rhythm whether good or bad.
Rhythm is not meter.
What then is meter? Meter is a way by which we may DESCRIBE the rhythm of the poem. If we can analyze a poem’s pieces we can determine what is working and what is not and most importantly: why.
Imagine Meter as the scaffolding surrounding a poem of pure Rhythm. The Meter will not remain. It will do its job giving the rhythm recognizable order. It will aid in the beauty of the architecture. It will limit useless tangent by confining language thereby creating “brevity” (one of a poet’s best tools).
Then it will go away.
That is the meter we will talk about in this workshop.
Last stupid fact: Cento (from the Latin for “patchwork”) is any collaborative poem. A poem written by multiple authors.
We've been talking for a while. Let us turn to a single subject for a moment.
What is meter (besides being hard) to you?
Tomorrow we will begin with the single, poetic verse.
Ok...
we need/ to see,/ we need/ to hear/ and smell.
Another one
I LOOKED aBOVE and LOOKED aROUND
a MIGHty God i THERE have FOUND
try polysyllabic words
I can be right so easy in da dum
For me
when we are talking about a verse, it is the number of stressed or accented syllables and their order in that verse.
When we are talking about a stanza, the meter is determined by the length kind and the length of the lines
How far am I?
Could be phrased better.
Write a verse of Iambic Pentameter and post it here. After my opening comments we will use it as our first example.
Wesley
From what you have explained, my perception of Rhythm and Meter could be similar to
Rhythm - A Charming Lady
Meter - A Graceful Lady
Are these similes right, near right or wrong?
Regards,
Rhythm is charming.
Meter is a shrew.
Since everyone is already ahead of me I might as well go on.
Welcome to Meter Is Your Friend Part One.
I want to start by guaranteeing that it is indeed your friend. It is not here to limit your writing, but rather to liberate it by allowing understanding of how a poem works- any poem, from the most complex ballade or epopee to subtle verso libre. Meter is there. It is not something we put in a poem. It is already there DESCRIBING what is happening in the poem… good or bad.
Understand meter and you understand nearly half of what poetry is about.
First assignment.
This is being given immediately not that you should start, but rather to give you something to think about as we discuss metrical form. Know that this is Part One of this workshop and in it we will discuss only iamb and anapest. Later, we will attempt to use them together as they commonly are.
Your first assignment will be to write a single verse (not line… verse) of iamb. It’s “meter” will be determined later.
Tomorrow I will discuss what that is from the beginning.
My Attempt - Iambic pentameter
The best is yet to come,is what is said
Query
I am yet to figure out if it is " iambic" or "lambic"
Excellent.
Now do it again.
Ok Wesley one more as you want
the BEST is YET to COME, is WHAT is SAID - verse1
the WORST will PASS as LONG as YOU beLIEVE - verse 2
does that work?
i think here, after verse 2 i may have lost in rhythm if it is read with verse 1....is that so?
Regards,
By jove I think you've got it.
Way to go.
Wait patiently for the next exercise and help everyone else.
may I be presumptuous?
Since Raj has clearly got it, the next attempt should include polysyllabic words. That's where it gets really tricky.
Meter vs. rhythm
Meter is the thing you notice when a poem's rhythm is off. It's like a bubble level. Once a wall is built, it's forgotten unless the wall visibly leans.
Here's my try
To move onward, one must embrace wisdom.
Alid
Alid, is there any chance you could record the verse?
Here is my reading, can you hear the stressed syllables?
http://vocaroo.com/i/s0ic8eojgPsi
Perhaps using vocaroo.com or soundcloud? They are very easy to use if you just have a microphone, a mike built in to your laptop, or a mike/headset.
I agree with Wesley on the parsing of that verse, though I would love to hear it as you would naturally say it.
There is a significant difference in natural syllable stress not just between English, American and Aussie english speakers, but also within America, those goddam jonny rebs (Southerners) speak with a French influence, though they would never admit it.
I used to, Jess
but the headset is now spoilt and I'm saving what little cash I can spare to get a new one.
Alid
make it a priority
I am bringing more and more live sound to our craft.
Not quite.
Here's my scan and listen (say it out loud) to where you have stressed it for iamb.
to MOVE / on-WARD / one MUST / em-BRACE / wis-DOM
Many of these words are not pronounced you way you require them to if you are writing in iamb.
"onward" is pronounced with the first syllable accented. Same with "wisdom".
Think (and you'll hear this a lot) da-DUM, da-DUM, da-DUM.
What do you think your meter is?
Here's mine.
Actually two.
"I want the best for all the poets here."
And
"When I have fears that I may cease to be
before my pen has gleaned my teeming brain,
fore high piled books in charac'try
hold like rich garners the full ripened grain...
Questions?
They should be about the last verse of the Keat's piece.
That last line
"hold like rich garners the full ripened grain"
is it really iamb?!
Well done Rula.
No one else mentioned it. How do you think it scans? It has everything to do with exercise three (which I haven't officially announced yet).
"hold LIKE / rich GAR- / ners the FULL / ripened GRAIN."
but, But BUT
that parsing is going to revolutionize everything I know about the stressed/ unstressed syllables.
I think we can't take one verse alone, but should read it in the context.
Maybe that makes the difference?
Anyone else?
One verse of iambic, the meter is the poet's choice.
Unimeter is one foot for the verse (we can do better than that).
Bimeter is two feet for the verse (still, let's go further).
Trimeter is three feet for the verse (tolerable, but let's do more).
Tetrameter is four feet for the verse (perfectly acceptable).
Pentameter is five feet for the verse (most common).
Hexameter is six feet for the verse (and as far as we will go).
Choose your meter and submit a verse for critique.
Wesley 1st Attempt
"Let the teacher teaching make us listen."
With a Sparrows Love
So where is your verse?
One verse iambic whatever meter. Try tetrameter. See above for explanation.
Wesley
The whole write there was a try at meter, penty or more, thought it would bring a smile to you.
Just to be sure I looked up "Verse" it appears that they have changed the meaning of the word Verse since I was young.
To me a verse is the same as a stanza, consisting of a number of lines, all biblical verses are more than one line, but that is why we are now old fashioned, wonder when it changed ????
I shall correct my input to conform with the task ..
Yours Ian
verse meaning one line is technically correct.
Wesley and I may never agree on this but he is the boss here. I think line is more descriptive and useful especially considering the correct use of verse causes confusion. In this case I think clear and effective communication beats technical correctness.
Jess
I had forgotten about the one line as a verse.
Don't forget my memory is bad on these things.
Always remember quoting chapter and verse as a standard saying, now you can see how old I is, lol
Have a good night out there young Jess,
Yours, Ian and the Children
More to expose alternatives than anything else.
.
Ian
LET the | TEACH -er | TEACH -ing | MAKE us | LIST -en
It is pentameter, but not iambic
This 'DUM ta' beat is called trochee
xxx
Judyanne & Wesley
from the example of Trochee provided by Judyanne, would it be right to say that a Trochee follows the opposite sequence of vowels w.r.t iamb? i.e., STRESSED -unstressed instead of unstressed - STRESSED?
Regards,
Yes,
trochee is the opposite of iamb. We will talk about trochee in part two. For now, if you're ready, think about anapest.
I will describe it shortly after we've seen more examples of iamb.
Judy
Fancy me putting it inside out Dum Dum, I have had another go, Da Dum..
Line/Verse 1
"I let the teacher teach a lesson true"
Line/Verse 2
"I usually chat the lesson through"
Oh please tell me I have reversed the thing to conform to the lesson,
Loves Yu, yours, Ian..
Excellent.
Carry on to anapest. The instructions are on one of those big Wesley talking things. If you have questions... ask.
Trochee.
Your first accent is the first syllable in the verse and the line follows on in trochee.
Remember that iamb will have the first syllable unaccented then follow suit.
1st try
I came upon a house today
Iambic tetrameter I think...........stan
Right
Stan
it's iamb tertameter.
Perfect.
Now do it again.
My try
I want to touch the earth
In ways it's never been
I want you to remember me
It won't be long until I'm gone
Carrie
We asked for one verse only.
Your first verse is good.
I WANT/ to TOUCH/ the EARTH
are you aware of its name?
whoops
Got carried away...assignment fail. ..is my line iambic pentameter
carrie
It is iambic trimeter
xxx
Judy
The difference??? I am totally dumb when it comes to meter. I am just glad I got it right :)
the difference
iambic trimeter = 3 feet de DUM/ de DUM / de DUM /
iambic tetrameter = 4 feet de DUM/ de DUM / de DUM / de DUM
iambic pentameter = 5 feet de DUM/ de DUM / de DUM / de DUM / de DUM
Can you do one more dear Carrie?
Is this right?
I want to touch the earth alone
In ways it's never been before
I want you to remember me this way
It won't be long until I'm gone for good
Carrie,
stop fighting the most important aspect of all poetry.
When you learn meter you will never look back. I promise.
I want to touch the earth alone
In ways it's never been before
I want you to remember me this way
It won't be long until I'm gone for good
These are the stessed syllables as I read them. You see if they make a pattern of feet.
I am trying
explain pattern of feet to me again...I seem to be stuck on trying to get the sound right.
try to get the technology together
to record your own voice and listen to it. You will hear meter or lack of it.
As I've said before, poets are anarchistic by nature and hate structured learning, but if you hear your own voice saying words with "flow" you will realise it is meter.
I can be a patronising arsehole, but please trust me on this.
Excellent Carrie.
Perfect iamb.
Now figure this out. Think like a poet. I have given you the answer earlier in this thread when I listed all the meters.
What are the meters that you use? I'll start: Your first line is Trimeter, so the verse is iambic trimeter.
What are the other meters?
My retry
The night is young and full of life
Iambic Tetrameter.
Alid
It is
iambic tetrameter.
Error
Error
Yes!
Now do it again. I would like two successful verses (not necessarily at the same time, they don't even have to make sense as long as the meter is right).
I'm asking everyone, so I'm not singling you out: What is the "meter"? How long is the verse?
Is it Unimeter or Hexameter or something in between? I gave you the answer earlier in the thread.
my verse(s)..(sorry - need the second to qualify the first)
iambic damn pentameter is not so hard to do
oh oops, it seems I’ve added here an extra foot or two
- iambic heptameter
xxx
the simple forms, iambic and trochee
are easy, or should be if you can count to two,
using polysyllabic words in the form is more challenging.
My reading
http://vocaroo.com/i/s1Hn1wNLjlEe
Ok
and left behind its mossy bones
another iambic tetrameter with one polysyllabic word dived into 2 separate feet.....i think
and LEFT / beHIND / its MOSS /y BONES
Am I cheating by using lines from a poem I already wrote?
Of course you're not cheating.
I don't care where it comes from as long as you recognize the meter. You are absolutely correct.
You are cleared for exercise two. A verse of anapest please. The explanation is further down (I believe... one of those big Wesley talking things).
And later... if no one else does... ask me why iamb and anapest and not iamb and its opposite trochee.
I'll ask but I think I already know lol.
I'll leave that for tomorrow........stan
Verse length is up to the poet and since you know...
what you call your length I won't ask you. The meter is flawless as I would expect from my highly paid moderator (talk to Andrew about your check).
Alexandrine is six, what poetic form uses seven? That's a real question. Any ideas?
me me me :)
It's heptameter
Narrative xxx
Narrative
xxx
this
is very like using genus and species to describe an animal. In poetry the first word refers to how syllables are stressed and the second tells how many feet. Iambic= second syllable stresses ; pentameter = 5 feet, tetra=4 feet, tri=3 feet and so one.
I suspect there's such thing as decameter in poetry but I don't think I've ever read any.......stan
How about?
de DUM
an iambic foot = / unstressed STRESSED / = a foot >>>>> disMAY
DUM de
a trochaic foot = / STRESSED unstressed / = a foot >>>>> EAsy
Yes, you are correct.
But don't get ahead of yourself. Trochee is for Part Two. Part One is only iamb and anapest.
Which brings me to this: we're still missing a lot of go's at this. It's only one verse of iamb. You choose the length.
hexameter
A catastrophe's hitting everyday herein
a CATA/stRO/phe's HIT/ting EV/ryDAY/ hereIN/ (iambic hexameter)
A ca TA / strophe's HIT /
A ca TA / strophe's HIT / ting E / very DAY / hereIN
I have a problem with the meter as you can see. The first two feet are anapest and the rest are iamb.
Here's the trick though... exercise three will be using anapest and iamb together.
You're just ahead of the curve, but the verse is not strictly iamb.
Yes there is decameter,
but it's seldom used in English because it's not even. Probably used freely in verso libre. Otherwise, (I think) it's used in Indian (the nation) poetry.
Here's my try for the verses
The night is young and full of life
as mom and dad renewed their vows
Alid
Excellent.
It's time to kick it up a notch.
parse this, I find it hard.
Alone I strive to be, such mockery can be sustained
if once my ego can be purposely set free
this could be parsed iambic
Alone/ I strive/ to be/, such mock/ery/ can be/ sustained
if once/ my eg/o can/ be purp/osely/ set free
yet I think both mockery and purposely are actually dactyls.
here is how I say it
http://vocaroo.com/i/s0kYHZE0Vjrd
Jess
i find, no mattter how many times I try, i can't stress 'can' here - it may be just me, but I read your second verse as
if once | my eg | -o can | be purp | ose –ly | set free
love judy
xxx
more or less what I am trying to say in this 'shop
we all say things differently, we stress things differently. There is only one way to parse poetry correctly, but it doesn't necessarily correspond to how we say it.
I am not trying to obstruct or be difficult, fuck knows I've tried and failed to teach meter before, badly. I was too didactic. Yet Wesley is being successfully didactic. I am learning more about running workshops than meter here.
Thank you Jess.
That's a very satisfying compliment from you.
I agree with both you and Judy
I also read "can" as unstressed in the line she refers to. I also agree that to an extent meter is a lot dependent on the reader. And it might not be just a dialect thing either. In that line with aforementioned "can" I could well be the writer wants the word to be stressed because he wants his ability to be emphasized.
And this is why perfect sustained meter to me is so difficult. There are times where I Want a word stressed by the reader which normally wouldn't be and Not just to make the rhythm smooth.
Same here, Stan
I have the same problem with strict meter rule.
Alid
But
We all need to learn these strict meters so when we decide to break a rule, it's done on purpose and to good affect. I suspect to those who speak English as a second language this is even harder to do
I think
the problem of wanting to stress an unstressed word in a write can be overcome, to some extent, by using italics
xxx
Perfect Iambic tetrameter by my parsing. Alid,
The night/ is young/ and full/ of life
as mom/ and dad/ renewed/ their vows
I hear renewed as 2 syllables, newed pronounced nude, tho in older forms the -ed suffix can be pronounced seperatelty. And good on you for using at least one polysyllabic word.
http://vocaroo.com/i/s0wxPqhWheXi
Let’s begin exercise two.
First to review.
Everyone (almost everyone) submitted two verses of poetry written in iamb. The length was up to the poet. We had everything from trimeter to heptameter (am I spelling that right?).
I believe in the end we had universal success. If there is anyone in this workshop still struggling with iamb, PM me and we will figure it out together.
I guaranteed success and I was serious.
On to Anapest (also spelled Anapaest). Anapest is from the Greek and means “struck back” or in other terms: an anti dactyl.
It is a rising foot as it comes from unstressed syllables to a stressed syllable (like iamb). An anapaestic foot is contrived of three syllables. Two unstressed followed by one stressed syllable. It also may be written in any verse length from unimeter to heptameter and beyond… if you dare.
A famous example:
“ ‘Twas the night before Christmas and all through the house,
not a creature was stirring, not even a mouse.”
This is written in anapaestic tetrameter. I would invite anyone and everyone to scan (parse) this.
Your assignment then is obvious. Write for us all a single verse of anapaest. The length is up to the poet, but the poet must now tell us what the verse’s length is.
here's a go, with sound
‘Twas the night/ before Christ/mas and all/ through the house,
not a creat/ure was stirr/ing, not ev/en a mouse.”
http://vocaroo.com/i/s0dWlnkKgitn
I just realised that amongst our members
are some who write song lyrics. They are going to find this really hard because they are used to mangling the pronunciation to fit the music.
The parse
was a piece of cake wasn't it?
"If you all have a go then you'll learn how it works."
Someone parse that. It should be anapest. Does anyone disagree? One could parse it iamb, but then the middle is clumsy.
No go on trochee or dactyl.
Analyze the verse please.
And write your anapestic verses.
Here
is how it could well be meant to be read (but likely not how you want it read)
IF you ALL have a go THEN you'll LEARN HOW it works.
but you want it read this way
If you ALL have a GO then you'll LEARN how it Works.
In truth...
I think you could scan a verse a half dozen ways, but only a couple will work well. I didn't need a particular word accented, so I wrote straight anapest.
And your comment about breaking rules is spot on. If we don't understand what we are gently or aggressively abusing then we tend to make a mess.
It must always come down to rhythm.
Meter simply describes the rhythm. We're holding to strict meter structure, so the meter can be understood.
scanning
a single verse is very dependent on the context in which its written. The way you've done it is as if one is talking in a normal manner and the way I did it was as if one was talking in the imperative way. How's that for nit picking? lol
For the sake of this workshop,
I don't care if the verse makes sense as long as the meter is sound. That's all I'm fishing for here in the Wading Pool. I promised that I would offer nothing that cannot be mastered in the workshop with a little effort.
"If you all have a go then you'll learn how it works."
"If you all/ have a go/ then you'll learn/ how it works."
anapaeist tetrameter
http://vocaroo.com/i/s1a9vFxDoSpB
anapaestic tetrameter (try 1)
Not sure what you call it ???
“On the river I saw many a swarm of flies"
Da Da Dum,Da Da Dum, Da Da Dum, Da Da Dum.
Got to do tetra as pentameter is too long to fit the square here,
Hope its near right, Yours, Ian
yes da da dum
but play dumb, it really pisses me off. You are a highly skilled poet who conveys more than most in a single poem. Your spirit shines
Please don't act dumb
Jess
This was an attempt at an anapaestic line instead of saying I am acting Dum, please give a little constructive critique.
Wesel says that the "a" is no good in this line of writing and the last two are not correct ????
How come??
Yours Ian.T
sorry
On the riv/er I saw/ many a /swarm of /flies
2 anapests , a dactyl, a trochee and a hanging monometer.
See if someone else parses it differently.
my reading
http://vocaroo.com/i/s0qczUNawBkJ
We were good until...
"a".
You needed an accent there and as you learned in your sonnet workshop articles (such as "the" or "a") cannot be accented.
The last two are iamb which is not a bad thing. Exercise three will talk about and demonstrate how these two meters complement each other.
However, as for a fully anapestic verse: not quite.
anapaest tetrameter
there was choice of a biscuit or cake with their tea
xxx
Agree.
Biscuit or cake. But the meters combine successfully which is exercise three.
Not yet Ian. I'd still like to see a verse entirely anapestic. It's actually easier than you think when you get in the rhythm of saying it.
I've not combined feet Wes
biscuit is two syllables
there was choice | of a bis | -cuit or cake | for their tea
love judy
xxx
Sorry.
I was being silly.
My try
Those who DWELL /in the PAST /will lose SIGHT /of toDAY
Alid
i think
those who dwell | in the past | will lose sight | of to -day
xxx
those who/ dwell in the/ past will lose/ sight of today
those who/ dwell in the/ past will lose/ sight of/ today
trochee/ dactyl/dactyl/trochee/iamb.
http://vocaroo.com/i/s1JWFP7dVVEW
Jess
We're at anaepest now - not mixed
xxx
I parsed it by content
not intent.
perhaps
we should parse by intent, to show where the meter is out, rather than confusing those learning with other feet atm ???
what do you think?
xxx
absolutely not
parsing by intent distorts the meter
of course it distorts the meter
And the person whose verse it is can see where they are wrong
Remember this is splash pool, and a lot of participants don't know the meters
It can become very confusing to them if you keep talking about trochee and pyrrhic etc, when they only know iambic and anaepest
xxx
We're in the Wading Pool.
The Splash Pool is for the big kids.
I want to make sure we are only talking about basic meter here. I guaranteed understanding, so I have to keep expectations low.
Trochee and dactyl are for Part Two.
Let's finish combining iamb and anapest successfully first.
My retry
We sus-PECT /he's a FRAUD /when he CHANGED / his ad-DRESS.
Is this right?
Alid
Alid
sounds good to me
xxx
The biggest problem with your first one is a common one.
You began with a word that just begged to be accented. Once it was accented, it changed the rhythm for the rest of the poem. How you start a poem is critical. It sets tone, meter and subject. A friend of mine once told me that you should be able to jump up and down on that first verse.
Your second verse is correct. Of course we could scan it other ways, but it reads as anapest quite easily.
Now move on. Write for us a verse that combines the use of both of these meters. Remember that an anapest is nothing more than an iamb with an extra unstressed syllable. When it works, simply eliminate that syllable then slip back into anapest. You'll have to trust me on this: it's easier than it sounds like.
I'm so late it's crazy
join me. I see my buddy Enos here. Glad you could join. I'll read and get a sense on here. I soon want to learn meter. I'm tired so I won't participate fully but will taste this ws for the fruits within.
welcome Barbara
great to see you here, you're added and in ;)
to get started, write one verse (one line) of iambic meter, any length - it can have three feet, four feet, five feet or six feet
let us know, if you can, how many feet and therefore what the meter is called
(cheats's sheet (shhh) 3 feet - trimeter, 4 feet - tetrameter 5 feet - you know this one, 6 feet - hexameter)
xxx
Okay I'll do
thanks for starting me off
Remembering unstressed come first is slippery
unstressed/stressed
Pentameter
I'm tired as heck make me a kid again
not quite barb.
I'm TIRED/ as HECK / MAKE ME/a KID/ aGAIN
Do you know the name?
Can you do another one of same length or shorter or longer dear?
Okay
I'm tired/ as heck/ I wish/ to be/ a kid/ again.
Excellent Barbara
a perfect iamb.
Well done dear!!
Name
No
it is six feet
which is called "hexameter"
Another one
I forget/ everything and/ remember/ very little.
What would this be.
I forget/ everything and/
I forget/ everything and/ remember/ very little
I forGOT/ EVEryTHING /and reMEMber/VERY LITtle
as you can see, it is a mix of anapest and trochaic
We need one verse of pure anapest first. Can you?
anapest is /unstressed unstressed STRESSED/
so it is very much like iamb but with one extra unstressed syllable.
Okwy
I'll try it.
Anapest?
I canNOT/ for the LIFE/ of me GET/ this sonNET/ in my HEAD
You're PERFECT
Perfect dear !
Ahh
I got it. Now what next
Next
Try to mix both iambi and anapest in one verse.
Iambic hexameter
forGET/ ing EVE/ ryTHING/ reMEM/ berING/ noTHING
sorry Barb.
forGET/ ing EVE/ ryTHING/ reMEM/ ber-ing/ NOthing
The last two feet don't match iambic...
Iambic
i AM/ inSPIRED/ to LEARN/ meTER
This is how I scan it
Try to read it aloud, it doesn't du DUM
i AM / in SP/ired to /LEARN ME/ ter
in-SP-ired
or inSPIRED
If you pronounce as two syllables, then
i AM /in SPIRED /to LERN / (these are all iambic)
/MEter/ is not iambic
Thanks
So it like this
i AM /in SPIRED /to LEARN /son NET
An odd thought.
I pronounce "tired" as two syllables.
I still agree with Rula's scanning.
Make sure you're reading aloud to yourself and force the rhythm of iamb as you read. It will make some words sound strange. That's where your problems are.
My greatest desire
is to hear from those in the workshop that haven't dropped by yet.
Next, is to see everyone's single verse of anapest. Some have posted and succeeded. I'd like to see that happen for everyone.
sorry folks
understanding iambic verse was simple..i could understand the trochee as well but this Anapest is beyond me...
It's simpler than you think.
The two meters (iamb and anapest) complement one another because they are nearly alike. An anapest is nothing more than an iamb with an extra unaccented syllable. Try using the example of Twas the night before Christmas and simply say that rhythm over again like singing a song, then start putting your own words to the rhythm. Don't worry about them making sense, we just want to put words to rhythm; the anapest rhythm. Do this on a number of occasions and you'll find that it takes very little thought to slip into making sense.
Treat it like a song at first.
I am late
I forgot to remember forgetting you...
Se if this works
To the many men who in their rage have committed an act
I think this might be anapestic hexameter
I think
This would make an anapestic pentameter
to the MAN/y men WHO/ in their RAGE/ have coMITTED/ed an ACT
huh?
coMITTED/ed ?
I think it's just a typo.
Excellent verse. Yes it is anapest. You can actually scan it different ways, but anapest works best and would be how I read it.
Everyone is talking about it so...
not sure about the
Line that I submitted
Could be
i forGOT/ to reMEM/ ber forGET/ting YOU (then it is a mix)
Sir?
No, this is easy.
It's catalectic. Don't stress the last "you" and then you're missing the last syllable of the last foot.
Catalectic anapaestic tetrameter. Don't laugh. You can't make this stuff up.
So it should be
I forgot to remember forgetting you then
I forGOT/ to reMEM / ber forGET/ting you THEN
Sometimes
One word makes an anapestic foot
/com-pre-HEND/ ... monometer
Two short and one long
Or
Two unstressed and one stressed
The word you're looking for is...
polysyllabic. Words of more than one syllable. Jess wanted to address it, but I decided to keep the workshop as simple as advertised.
This is important.
From the beginning one of the tenets of this workshop (we are in the Wading Pool after all... hope you all have your flotation devices on) is that all participants will work at their own pace (you've heard this before, but I wanted to repeat it). Hence we have poets who are late come and working on iamb. Some have figured out anapest and it's time for those poets to be allowed to go forward.
No one is being hurried. This workshop will be open the full thirty days and beyond.
I guaranteed success and I will deliver to those who try.
Exercise Three
Mixing meters.
Some are asking me why I chose to pair iamb with anapest.
The simple answer is they complement one another both being rising meters.
The mixing of these two meters goes back to a popularity of it in the 19th century with such poets as Swinburne.
An example of combining the two meters by Yeats.
"Fled foam underneath us and 'round us, a wandering and milky smoke
As high as the saddle-girth, covering away from our glances the tide
And those that fled and that followed from the foam-pale distance broke.
The immortal desire of immortals we saw in their faces and sighed."
Note he fairly abuses the combination, but never does he use other than those meters.
The last verse is strictly anapest, the others are not.
Trochee and dactyl complement one another in the same way, but that’s for Part Two.
Assignment: to write a single verse combining both iamb and anapest.
Here is mine.
I'm not happy yet, so this is rough draft. I don't like the transition from anapest to iamb and I wish I could have arranged to ping pong the meters back and forth. But for what it is here is my beginning.
‘Twas the night before Christmas I think cause I was really drunk that night.
Are there lemon sharks in the wading pool. I could use one.
Can you please
parse it for me sir?
twas the NIGHT | be -fore
twas the NIGHT | be -fore CHRIS | -mas i THINK | CAUSE i | was REALL | -y DRUMK | that NIGHT
a tinsy trochee in there?
xxx
Judyanne did and correctly.
It's a very poor example. I prefer writing in anapest alone. The combination throws me.
Meter
parabolic form...I have no idea...
I suffered greatly school
nio math..no memory
social anxiety bad..had to sit in bathroom stall all day
panic attacks
coped with booze eventually
part of my thinking is I attatch a why
to each small note..
I know adjectives ..nouns..pro nouns
that sort of thing just
like I know fractions...a bit in math
I can play guitar free style..
plunking melodic on strings
sliding some bending notes
but know three chords
and I dont admit to being a guitar
player..
same with POetry
to really be a true poet one must
know all the fundementals
I like you Wesley..You know all
the mecahins through and through
My compture fan is dying at the
moment....bearins done..
time sparingly
before it starts to vibrate
it growls its comic Grrrrrrrrr.
like being a hack writer and
the ink dies on your typewriter..
anyway...will study what this is
about on my own for moment
just means im not a very tehnically
proficient poet?
Thank You!
Thank you.
You are welcome to peruse everywhere. This is the Wading Pool. All are welcome.
My try
He TRIED /to ma-LIN/ger but FAILED /to conVINCE /his DAD.
iambic/ anapest/ anapest/anapest/iambic
Is this right?
Alid
clapping madly
Well done Alid
xxx
Phew!
Still find it dificult.
Alid
Bravo Khalid
Why don't you do another one, just to practise.
mine
I can SEE | that the EGGS | for the EAST | -er SEA | son are AL | -read - y ON | the SHELVES
xxx
Did I miss
exercise 2??? I am lost...this thread is getting hard for me to follow. I am trying to be as present as possible but am in the process of packing up house and moving and work has been a bit hectic this week. Please bring me up to speed.
hi Carrie
Exercise 1 was write one verse (line) of iambic - any length
Exercise two write one verse in anaepest - three syllables to a foot, two unstressed followed by one stressed
ta ta DUM | ta ta DUM | ta ta DUM....
Exercise 3 - mix the two
take your time
xxx
Judyanne
thanks for the explanation of Anapest. The degree of stress is certainly going up. iambic now looks easier of the two. :)
Regards,
Judyanne & Wesley
if you WISH | I sing FOR | you then NE | -ver you NEED | to look FAR |
does that remotely look like anapestic pentameter?
Raj
You've mixed up at least 2 words in
if you WISH | I sing FOR | you then NE | -ver you NEED | to look FAR |
SING (stressed word)
for (non-stressed)
Not sure about the rest. Wait for others to comment.
Alid
Thanks Alid
for pointing out the error. I have never been good at it.
You're welcome, Raj
I ony know this because I checked them out in http://dictionary.reference.com/. Why don't you do the same? Maybe this might help abit.
Alid
if you WISH | i SING for |
if you WISH | i SING for | YOU then NE | -ver you NEED | to LOOK FAR
xxx
In order:
Alid, you rock and so do you Judyanne.
Carrie, Judyanne's instructions are correct, but don't feel hurried. Everyone is to work at their own pace. You're working only with yourself.
Even when we go to Part Two, stay on what you're working on. I need you to understand iamb and anapest first.
wesley
Thank you. I will catch up over the weekend.
Hmmm.....
Of listing piers and cracked hearthstones
of old PIERS / and CRACKED / hearthSTONES
anapest, iamb,iamb
sorry stan
what are you up to? Mixed?
This is iambic iambic iambic trochee, no anaepest
of LIST | - ing PIERS | and CRACKED | HEARTH stones
xxx
apparently
not "up to mixed" just mixed up lol. If at first you don't succeed...................
sorry
HEARTH -stones ------ trochee
xxx
Hmmm.....
I thought if given a choice between stressing and adjective or noun that the noun came out stressed
hearth and stone
are both nouns... and apart from that, your thesis re adjectives and nouns is grossly flawed ;)
The first part of a multiple word is stressed
SOME -where
SOME -one
MANT -le -piece....
xxx
in this case hearth is an adjective describing
the type of stone. In the compound word hearthstone it would be considered a part of a noun. This type stuff is what keeps poetry an art as opposed to science isn't it? lol
context will change much of this.
However, I agree with Judyanne's assessment.
I still
think you are both confusing hearth stone with hearthstone
then it would be
HEARTH-stone ---- trochee
or HEARTH STONE----- spondee
...
according to Webster's ninth Collegiate dictionary it's
hearthSTONE when used as a compound word. I'm pretty uncertain about a lot of stressed vs. unstressed syllables and was thinking maybe I'd been mispronouncing it all my life due to some dialect thing. So I ((((shudder))))) looked it up lol
checking a couple of mine....
Are you sure you're reading the stresses correctly?
I still get HEARTH-stone
And my tongue cannot say hearthSTONE -it sounds forced
xxx
Another try
but the LEAST/ I've TRIED/ to comPOSE/ the SO/nnet 'BOVE/
i mainTAINED/ a RHYTHM/ and a RHYME/to WIN / your LOVE
no need to shorten 'above' Rula
the SONN | -et a -BOVE
nice iambic | anaepest
above doesn't shorten to 'bove without sounding forced - it's not a word usually shortened
The rest is fine - well mixed meter
xxx
In the best of times there
In the best of times there will be no crimes
in the BEST / of TIMES / there will BE / no CRIMES
anapest , iambic , anapest , iambic
yes
(You forgot to capitalise 'crimes')
xxx
That's it Stan.
It gets easier as you write like that. My combination is horrible, I confess to enjoying anapest by itself though.
I need a head count please.
How many participants have had success with the iambic verses?
How many participants have had success with the anapestic verse?
You know who you are, so please tell me.
It's important in determining when we begin Part Two.
Wes, this is me reporting
I have succeeded in both iambic and anapestic verses
Alid
please proceed
I'm just observing now.
Judy,
try as I may, I can't rectify that last foot. Errr help please?
The VE/ry i-DEA/ that I HAVE/ to CHEAT /to WIN/ is ri-DI/-cu-LOUS
iambic /anapest /anapest /iambic /iambic /anapest /
Alid
now you've passed mixed iambic and anaepest
(as long as you mean a little 'i')
well done Alid
xxx
really?
I say INsult when it's a noun and inSULT when it's a verb.
almost, Alid
the VE | -ry i DEA | that i HAVE | to CHEAT | to WIN | is ri -DIC | -u -lous
heptameter
iambic | anapaest | anapaest | iambic | iambic | anapaest | pyrrhic
-but the 'lous' in 'ridiculous' may be passed by Wes as stressed, as we tend to go down beat at the end of a sentence - if so, then you are correct
xxx
Judy
I'm seeing stars.
iambic - unstressed/ stressed
trochee - stressed/ unstressed
anapest - unstressed, unstressed/stressed
dactyll - stressed/ unstressed, unstressed
pyrrhic - ?????
Can tell me the definition of pyrrhic?
Alid
you should be able to see by the parsing Alid
that pyrrhic is | unstressed unstressed |
xxx
Alid
.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metre_%28poetry%29
scroll down to
Metric variations
your will find a handy table of the various metric forms
I think either one is usable.
A lot could depend once again on the dialect. How the person wants to speak it, but as a combination I think it works. My personal opinion leans toward the last two syllables as pyrrhic.
Don't panic. Go on with a verse of trochee. The directions are above, but if you can't find them ask and it shall be delivered unto you.
i've done all three Wes
xxx
I
Have also posted all three correctly.
I think
I did them too.
Calling the absentees
If you hear your name, say "yes" please :)
Carrie
Geezer
Enos
Barbara
Jess
I have not submitted the exercises,
I've been far from well, please process as though I have,
trust me, I know them.
Thank you Rula.
I would very much like to hear from the "absentees" (not in the workshop, just absent in this list) before I begin Part Two.
It looks to me that almost everyone mastered iamb. I want everyone. If anyone is having trouble with iamb or anapest please PM me and we will discuss it together.
Wesley
I am away tomorrow for a week or so.
I will be off the computer waves, so will have to stop being in this workshop, sorry about it but I will not be able to sort out and catch up.
Good workshop though, I shall wait for the next one or experiment when I return with the meter forms,
Yours as always Ian.T
Thank you for telling me Ian.
See you when you get back. We will likely still be here.
Wesley
Thanks for the workshop it really teaches us a great deal, one thing I found is that it would need more time for each part.
The whole thing could be sorted into numbered sections and slowed a little,
I remember the story we all wrote where each of us was given a part and a numbered piece to write it worked in the end.
But teaching Form as meter it needs a part for each section then I could re-join at the place I leave.
Take care will try t catch up on return but meter is a hard subject for me,
Yours Ian..
This is what has been covered so far
This is what has been so far covered and discussed to be refered to easily. For details, please detect through out the thread.
1-Rhythm vs. Meter
**Rhythm is the flow of the poem. It is how it gets from point A to point B and beyond. It is the sound of the poem. It is the music of the poem.
**Meter is a way by which we may DESCRIBE the rhythm of the poem.
2-Quantitative vs. Qualitative
**Quantitative is the meter of the ancient world. In this type of meter stresses are irrelevant. What varies the verse is the use of long and short vowel sounds.
**Qualitative is the meter of the modern era (beginning with the Renaissance) characterized by stressed syllables coming at regular intervals
3- The verse = one line in poetry
4- Types of meter depending on the Numbers of feet in one verse
* Unimeter is one foot for the verse.
* Bimeter is two feet for the verse.
* Trimeter is three feet for the verse.
* Tetrameter is four feet for the verse.
* Pentameter is five feet for the verse .
*Hexameter is six feet for the verse.
5-Types of meters so far discussed
*iambic (unstressed STRESSED
** anapest (unstressed unstressed STRESSED)
to be updated accordingly...
Re-attempt at these tricky exercises :)
if I Ever let FEver get HOLD of my HEALTH - anapest
NEver SHALL I SNEEZE aLOUD to SPREAD the BUG - trochaic
i HOPE my COLD is JUST a PASSing PHASE - iambic pentameter
LIKE a FLASH of THUNder, beFORE the HEAvy RAIN - trochaic & iambic fusion
have I done better???
Not yet Raj
If I ever get a fever
if i E/ver GET/ a FEver
Only the first foot is anapest.
Remember
unstressed unstressed STRESSED
will talk about torchaic in part two of the workshop.
Rula
I am more confused now...didnt you say that anapest is unstressed unstressed stressed..
In If I ever ..i have followed that sequence havent I?
Anyways, since you say i am wrong i accept failure
unless I find a dictionary which breaks down each word into stressed and unstressed syllables..i will continue to stay stressed...no point for me to re-discover that I am dumb when it comes to understand fundamentals of stressed & unstressed syllables...most sportingly therefore i retreat...not before having given this a mighty try..
Sorry raj
if you are attempting a pure anapest verse, only the first feet of the verse is working as anapest. The second feet and the third are iamb with half a foot less at the end.
It's always advisable to say which ex. you are working on to avoid this confusion.
Now, which one are you attempting?
Rula
Appreciate your patience with me. Please excuse me and let me get out of this metrics zone. believe me it is driving me crazy..
Best regards and thanks for all the help,
but raj
brave men don't usually quit easily. :)
You are doing really good. You only need to lable it as a mix of both anapest and iambic.
I am not in the big league
a small timer . period.
Your self-deprecation is unbecoming, sir
you are a highly skilled wordcrafter. Listening to the Indian accent I understand that words are often stressed very differently, which would make this workshop especially difficult for you, but not impossible. I will give an example I have used often before; the British say cigarette (anapest), Americans say cigarette (dactyl). Both are correct to a speaker of the same accent. To formalise pronunciation beyond regional differences I suggest a good dictionary that supplies phonetic spelling. My preference is for British, a British dictionary. It is, after all, the English language. There are also, as Rula has explained, grammatical rules that help.
Look at how expert Rula has become, with English as a second language.
Her expertise has come not just from natural genius but through diligence and practice.
It would really help, as I have said often before, if you could record your own pronunciation on Vocaroo or Soundcloud, we may be able to give you more effective feedback.
jess
and don't forget the perfect competent mentor
Rula
will you CHECK my aTTEMPT again?
i will THANK you a LOT
[GRINNing BROADly]
I've CHECKED /and YOU /have
I've CHECKED /and YOU /have PASSED/ and QUA/liFIED /for the NEXT/
BRAVO! But TRY/a GAIN/ to DO/ some A/ naPIS/tic PLEASE/
if i E/ ver LET FE/ver GET
if i E/ ver LET FE/ver GET HOLD/ of my HEALTH - anapest
Raj, as you can see the fist and last feet work as anapest.
Trochee... passed
Iamb ....passed
Well done!
Another round? With anapest I mean
Rula
You are being nice to say good things and in a very gentle manner letting me know that
"if I Ever let FEver get HOLD of my HEALTH" - is not an anapest
and that as you have said in
if i E/ ver LET FE/ver GET HOLD/ of my HEALTH - anapest
only the fist and last feet work as anapest...
you can now perhaps understand that I am not able to decide which is unstressed and which is stressed syllable..in the above verse I was under the impression that LET and GET were unstressed syllables...I really don't have a clue how to decide which is unstressed and which is stressed ...hope you now appreciate my quandary..
Regards,
Hello raj
Sometimes I am just with much work with the kids here, so if I am not nice with words please just know it's but a tiring day :)
As for LET and GET are main verbs and hence are STRESSED.
I don't know if Judy or Wesley has any better explanation.
Let's see what they should say.
PS.As native speakers, some have a trained ear and when they read aloud they know where the stress falls.
Okay.
The verse is anapest, you simply scanned it wrong. Rula, you scanned it multiple ways.
I think.
"If I E- / ver let FE / ver get HOLD / of my HEALTH; (Don't forget the semi colon as you've written an incomplete sentence. Not important here though).
Anapestic tetrameter.
Stop fussing with it and go on.
Have you mixed meters yet? If so then write a single verse of Trochee. The instructions are above or if you can't...
Oh hell, trochee is a two syllable foot. One stressed/one unstressed. The opposite of iamb. If you already knew this... there's nothing like review.
dear Raj
seems you've misunderstood me. I feel guilty now if I misled you. Sorry if I did.
Please don't give up. It's very easy and you do only need to mimic the first feet to get the anapest pure verse.
Rula
my decision has nothing to do with your comment. I thoroughly respect your help and good intentions as always. So please don't get me wrong. I hope you appreciate how much I have been trying endlessly to get this metrics kind of stuff right ...but i do understand my limitations and with due respect to all i bid adieu to this WS.....good or bad..believe me please that i find these restrictive strict poetry forms ruining my self confidence...
It is certainly up to you raj
and I really respect and understand whatever your decision is.
Rula
thanks a lot
respectfully,
Rula
someone has reported me to Principal Wesley and he has ordered me back. ..was it you? :)
anyways...i can't be disrespectful to anyone and certainly not the Principal ..so will give those 4 verses a mighty try again...hopefully without getting stressed...
Regards,
Remember,
Remember,
He is the authority. He knows everything. :)
Welcome back to the horrors of the meter.
horrors of meter?
A good description. mmm. even though I have managed to complete the exercises so far, I STILL find myself very incompetent in the subject.
Alid
Not incompetent, dear Alid.
Learning.
The same applies to you as I said to Raj above. You are a highly skilled wordcrafter...
Look at how expert Rula has become, with English as a second language.
Her expertise has come not just from natural genius but through diligence and practice.
You're right, Jess
I just need more practice.
Alid
Sorry to see you go.
We're just getting started.
Part Two
Trochee.
As always, some review is in order. If you will peruse Rula’s List above you will find what I think is a very concise review of what we tried to accomplish.
This next is important. Everyone still struggling with iamb or anapest are still in the thick of this workshop. Post your continued attempts and we will continue to aid in your understanding. I again invite anyone to PM me if you have specific questions or just want more help.
Don’t be shy. I’m the Director of the Mentor Program.
It’s what I do, it’s who I am.
For now I’m selling mechanics. It is dull, but necessary work.
Onward.
With what we learned in part one, part two should actually be easier. The hardest step to take is the first one. The idea of thinking in meter at all is alien to how we generally think.
If we can figure out da-DUM, da-DUM, da-DUM, we can figure out every other meter no matter how complex seeming because it is all nothing more than a variation on a theme.
Add an unstressed syllable to the front of an iambic foot and suddenly you have anapest.
Take an iamb and reverse it and suddenly you have Trochee.
There are only so many ways you can evenly order words.
An example of trochaic tetrameter:
“Round about the cauldron go;
in the poisoned entrails throw.”
Shakespeare
Assignment: A single verse of trochee in at least tetrameter. Remember that iamb and anapest do not play well with trochee or dactyl. Keep them apart.
My try
THOSE who / STRIKE a/GAINST the / WEAK are / COW-ards.
This is Trochee pentameter. Am I right?
Alid
You are correct...
to the letter of the law if not the spirit. It is trochaic pentameter alright, but it lacks rhythm, flow, feel.
However, that's not the assignment which you passed.
So do it again this time as an Alexandrine (hexameter... six feet per verse).
Don't give up on me now, son... you're getting it figured out.
My retry
FLEE you / CO-wards! / FLEE and /HIDE or /FACE my/ WRAITH now!
Alid
You've got it.
Take a break while we wait for the others then we will start dactyl.
lol - I can't escape this heptameter - help!!
Chasing rainbows, balmy nights of summer sunsets - pure delight
(And trochee makes me write hypermetrical, 'cos it doesn't sound finished to me on an up-beat - lol))
xxxx