The hell and heaven aren't the same,
one's cool, the other burns in shame,
the heaven's faces grin with smiles,
while hell's lost souls are strewn in piles.
The choice is ours which end to choose;
we either win or else we lose,
the roads we took have always led
which eternal lives we loved to tread.
Last Few Words:
Style/Type: Structured: Western
Review Request Direction:
What did you think of my title?
How was my language use?
What did you think of the rhythm or pattern or pacing?
How does this theme appeal to you?
How was the beginning/ending of the poem?
Is the internal logic consistent?
Review Request Intensity: I want the raw truth, feel free to knock me on my back
Editing Stage: Editing - rough draft
Comments
Hi Rula
I like the theme and wisdom of this one and it rhymes very well, I also like the title.
( just my opinion ) but I would drop the the's in the first stanza/
Hell and heaven aren't the same,
one's cool, the other burns in shame.
Heaven's faces grin with smiles,
while sinful souls in hell are piles.
But it's your poem and I'm no expert so it's down to you.
Well done! nice write!
Love Mand xxxxxx
hello dear mand
I'm no expert either but thought I'd keep it for the sake of the meter.
Appreciate your input. Always.
Yes hell is piles...
Ail or treasure - do you mean ale as in beer or to ail as in sicken? Nuff said. Next. Mand go to the most obvious before me. The hell with it all I'm off to Heaven for a good dance.
Jimm
Hi Rula
You have touched upon a very intriguing subject / thought "Heaven or Hell". I say intriguing because it's an unknown place for the living. Yet, you have a good message, sort of set an alarm for those who would prefer the make believe Heaven or for even those who dread the make believe Hell.
perhaps you may want to consider a suggestion
changing the line from
the roads you walk shall always measure
to
the roads you walk shall lead to
...raj
hello raj
I appreciate your visit and the suggestion which I, as you can see , took into concideration.
Hope you like it.
I liked this poem. It
I liked this poem. It reminded me of my own Catholic theology on Hell and Heaven. I liked the meter, except when it got to the final couplet.
The change made the rhyme look forced, but it's just my opinion. It's a short, to-the-point poem.
hello william
Always appreciate your passing by. Hope you like the revision.
Thanks for your thoughts. Always appreciated.
Yes,
I think it reads better now. Much better than the previous one ;D
thank you Williams
I really appreciate your second visit highly and I'm happy I didn't let you down.
Many thanks.
Rula, this thread is going to look weird
Because I have decided to edit out all my contentious comments.
I decided that the piece was proselytising, which I find unacceptable, but as has been pointed out to me, that is just my opinion, not a fact, and certainly not something I should make a personal crusade.
yes,
This is definitely much better.
thank you jess
Remember, it IS your choice. :)
.
.
you say it's not a real
Choice, but it is definitely better than hell.
.
.
I know
You are a "tubeless case" concerning religion.
I still wish you'd look into the mechanics You can find something good there, ca't you?((smiles))
.
.
Never mind jess
I think you should feel sorry for your self not me. I'm proud to be who I am, it's you who I feel sorry for. Such an intelligent man but without a n aim.
Please let's leave this here.Wishing the coming days would show you something different.
As for "tubeless", It's just an expression used for fun to alternate "useless case" :)
.
.
calm down please
We have both made our choices, so you need not rage up :)
.
.
Jess will never appreciate
Jess will never appreciate any poem that speaks of religion or religious ideals, no matter how good or bad it is.
Jess, I think you shouldn't have bothered reading this. Your reaction to such is always predictable.
I stopped reading Lenny of
I stopped reading Lenny of Cohen's poems because I quickly realised that all he does is the bashing of religion, especially organized religion.
Although I respect his opinions and sometimes find his poems intellectually stimulating, I thought it was immature for him to keep that theme going on and on throughout his poetry. I honestly see all of his poetry as utter BS, because of the basic fact that he refuses to open his mind and try something effing different!!
Sorry for the outburst, but when you find something completely offensive (as is your case with religion-inspired poetry, and mine, with the BS Lenny and his ilk like to parade), you can respectfully ignore it. That's the way poets ought to go.
Always trashing religious poems isn't the best way to go, Jess. It gets old quickly. You can ignore the content and focus on the actual poetry; that's perfectly okay. Just as I'm open-minded enough to appreciate your poetry (and I'm a Catholic, born and bred) even though I may disagree with one or two ideas, you should be open-minded when it comes to religious poetry, and put your own feelings behind you, especially since you're such an inspiration on this site.
That, I believe, is more constructive.
Thanks Williams
for the support. It is exactly what I wanted to say, we can discuss many things in the poem if we don't like the content, or leave it altogether and not bother yourself reading or leaving a comment
not so, William,
I seem to remember appreciating one of yours with a religious theme.
It is proselytizing I strongly object to.
oh and thank you
I used to feel that I was an inspiration to poetry on this site but lately have felt less than useful, beyond guiding the workshops
If my poetry has improved
If my poetry has improved since joining this site (and I'm not entirely sure of that just yet), it's largely because of you, Wesley and a few others here. I always preach Neopoet to my friends, and show a lot of people your poetry. You're an inspiration Jess. :P
.
I get you now. I'll be honest
I get you now. I'll be honest I also rage against proselytizing, especially from fellow Christians (damn them!!). But I didn't see this poem as just another covert attempt at converting anyone.
It came to me as just a statement of her beliefs, set in verse. I agree it was short and powerful. It probably was just you (and a few suspicious others) who would see this poem that way. But you ought to calm down when addressing such poems.
We understand your beliefs and choices, just as you do ours.
I hear you
I probably over-react from a severely religious background.
My apologies to you, Rula
Though you always accuse me
of proselytizing, your apologies are accepted.
.
.
please don't start this over and again
I have NOT made any intentional hint whatsoever. Keep these thoughts for yourself.
.
.
if you insist,
I think you DO suffer from "religionphobia".
.
.
.
.
I shall stop only
because I love this place to grow in peace.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts SIR
nice
you loose,...!
shouldn't it be better if you say
lose
as loose
is loose
Hah!
Good one loved! I can't believe I didn't spot that...
.
thanks
For the heads up Loved. Highly appreciated.
grateful
you are member AC
I was feeling scared
.
.
save ur breath jess
not scared
but the ability there of
save ur breath jess
save ur breath
not scared
but the ability there of ...
I ain't no psycho
nor coward
you all know
I ain't no kid
many dawns
did i adorn ,
ere you,
yes most of you
were born
Hello Rula,
As far as the content of the poem: I do see it as more of a presentation of your beliefs than proselytizing, but I can also see how Jess interprets it as proselytizing. Because the poem only presents the dichotomy of Heaven and Hell (and no other choice but those two) and includes "you" and "yours", readers may think you want them to believe the way you do because you present your beliefs as absolute Truth.
I did not read the poem this way. I disagree with the beliefs in the poem, but I will fight for anyone's right to believe the way the poem presents. Jess believes that only a coward would accept these beliefs. Or he may even that cowards don't deserve peace of mind. I don't. (If you argue that only cowards do certain things, the underlying warrant of that argument is that being a coward is bad, or that cowards are bad people. Thus telling someone that cowards do certain things should keep them from doing those things).
There are many people in my life who have survived horrors and critical thinking brought them to believe in God after the fact. Jess may think only people who are afraid to face horrors in their life will put faith in God to protect them. Or that only people who want reward for enduring terrible circumstances with put their faith in God. I have seen the opposite. I have seen people that care so little about themselves they would rather be abused all their life than seek safety. They turned to religion for solace, but they still think so terribly of themselves; they know for certain they will go to Hell because of bad things they believed they have done. They neither expect reward of Heaven, nor except God to protect them, but they still believe he exists and do everything they can to be good and faithful (sort of like Job in the Qur'an).
Also, I think cowardice is as cowardice does (I just watched Forrest Gump last night for the first time in over a decade, had to make a reference!). Cowards can choose religion because they want positive consequences for their actions when it comes to eternal reward/damnation. At the same time, cowards can choose atheism if they don't want to face any consequences for their actions. If they don't believe in heaven or hell, they don't have to worry about being good/bad because it won't matter when it comes to eternal reward/damnation.
With all that in mind, Jess may have liked to suggest different wording in the poem that would reduce the proselytizing feeling. Eliminating the "you" aspect of the poem could do this. The title could be "The Choice is Mine", for instance, and similar changes could be made to the second stanza so that it is clear that these are Rula's beliefs, but she does not intend to force others to believe the way she does. I support these suggestions.
As for the mechanics of the poem, I only have a few small ones:
First, I think the line "the heaven's faces grin with smiles," is a little awkward because of "grins with smiles". I think something like "Heaven's faces are bright with smiles" or something similar could work if you decide to change it.
Next, just like Loved said, on stanza two line two, it should be "lose" (English is crazy: loose does not actually rhyme with choose).
Last, "lead" and "tread" don't actually rhyme either (when lead means to lead someone or to lead your life, but the metal lead does rhyme with tread)! Now, this works fine if you are content with "eye rhyme", where the spellings look alike but the words are pronounced differently, but I don't think you are because it doesn't come up anywhere else in the poem.
I will try to give you a specific suggestion for fixing these lines, if you don't want eye rhyme:
"the mortal life I choose to keep
ends in judgement justly reaped"
It's definitely not perfect, and probably doesn't even fit your meter, but I included my suggestion about eliminating the "you" and hope it inspires you to make your own better fitting revision. I think the poem is succinct and worth your attention.
PS: I especially enjoyed the line "while sinful souls in hell are piles" . We always see painting that present Hell this way, but I don't think I've ever seen a poem successfully write it this way.
Thanks swamp-witch for
your extended thoughts. Really appreciate you input. I might not be able to reply each thought you've stated here but you must know I highly appreciate every word.
and to be quite honest, I have no intentions to make any major changes especially in you and yours because You here includes the humanity in general, but I am thinking of revising the last couplet to make it a perfect rhyme.
Thank you again
I think that's perfectly fair, Rula
This is your poem and the changes you make are your choice. :)
very well thought out swamp-witch
but you know what makes me giggle, despite all your reason and compassion?
The line
"while sinful souls in hell are piles"
makes me think that hell is terrible hemorrhoids.
I didn't even think of it that way!
But that works too. LOL.
To All on this one
I haven't joined in the discussion on this poem Rula before this, as it to me is a minefield.
You can, as your beliefs dictate make a suggestion of Heaven and Hell and the choices that we can make, this is your poem and it is as stated no matter if we agree with the content or not.
Now what it does is stirs the emotions of all types of believers, or those that don't believe, then they lose sight of the poems structure and of course your theme which in this case is yours alone.
.
the roads you take shall always lead
to eternal life you loved to tread.
Here on these two lines you lose the rhyme,
Lead (Leed):- to go ahead of others that follow.
Led
Example sentences
Its paths led to sculpture gardens and satellite patios tucked beneath shade
Offering the boys gifts of ribbon, he eased their fears and was soon led to the
She led the day's ceremony as a gesture of reconciliation.
The stress he laid on experience in the growth of mind led him to magnify,
.
Therefore one of the lines has to change..
.
the roads you take has always led
to the eternal life you loved to tread.
As to all the other views I shall keep my own council,
Yours with unconditional love, Ian.T
What about...
"the roads you tread have always led
to timeless Life or endless dread."
or
"the roads of life have always led
to Paradise or Jah'nnam's dread"
where Jah'nnam is Jahannam, the "islamic word for Hell" I just googled.
I felt the sight rhyme was okay, but Ian brings up a good point.
William
You must know I appreciate your second thoughts, I am happy you have done some googling and just to add to your information the paradise is called "Janah"
Many many thanks again.
Hello Ian
Many thanks for your thoughts. I also appreciate commenting on the mechanics when you can't or don't like the content. I believe there is always something we can say and suggest. I also like your sugggestion as it is the closest to my couplet, so I shall consider it.
Can't thank you enough dear Ian.
Rula
To you and your family, have a lovely New Year,
and may all the things that pass your way, be in perfection,
Yours as always, Ian and Anne Milnes Howard
Hi Ya'll
In order to be guilty of what Jess claims, a poem or any other written statement must concern a Particular religion. Heaven and hell are in so many different religions that simply referring to them does not delineate a particular religion. This poem could be about Judaism, Roman Catholicism, Christianity, Mormanism and probably a bunch of isms I can think of at the moment. We all know Rula is an Islamic believer but nowhere in the poem is that particular belief mentioned.
As to the poem itself I agree the line with "piles" in it seems a bit awkward . But forcing rhyme is pretty common for a free verser who is trying to navigate in western classic.............stan
thank you Stan
I really appreciate your visit and the comment as well. Hope all would read it this way.
As for piles, I just wish I could have an alternative that matches.
Thanks again.
Hi Rula...by "piles" do you
Hi Rula...by "piles" do you mean "abundant"...i suggest you try thesarus in www.dictionary.com if you are searching for an alternative word, just in case you haven't tried that already...
yes
That is what I meant. I thought it was clear, and I still do :)
Hey Rula
Despite all that's been said, the poem has merit in and of itself, never lose sight of that! If you care enough about the concept of written art to carry on its traditions, then you are a much better person than any of your critics, regardless of their education or lack of same!
Lonnie
I felt like I'm flying with your words and I am really grateful. Thank you.
hi
try a change in the line instead of word. Something like : in hell lost souls are strewn in piles. Sometimes a line must be changed(while still keeping its content) in order to smooth out rhymes............stan
too many revisions
have already been done, but I am taking your suggestion into consideration as soon as I am re-visiting as I feel this line really needs something to make it clear. A thought I really appreciate Stan.
Hi Rula
Different people have different views. Can't really control how people will react to what we write. Sometimes being too sensitive or misunderstanding can make a poem critic lose the ability to see the art in that particular poem itself. This is only a suggestion.Perhaps replacing 'you' with 'we' and 'yours' with 'ours" might help. it makes it in more general term as in "we" as all human beings.
As for the rest i think it ts all good...
Alid
hello Khalid
Thanks for the visit and the thoughts as well.
As you can see I have edited taking into consideration your thoughts and Stans.
Many thanks for both of you gentlemen and every one who visited and left a thought wether considered here or left to be considred in the future.
Always appreciated.
you're welcome
You're welcome. Glad to be able to help.
Alid