I live and die by my integrity
as much by stirring shit for fun alone
awaiting better things, imperfectly
and so my work is never nearly done
The arrogance is clear to all who see
To make a change in other's work belies
a heartless sod who cares too much to be
yet who could blame my care for more than lies?
I blame and shame and censure all of you
would you do less? I care for prosody
no stronger art in all the world that's true
less than truth is less by far than parody
And yet my life is all that I can crave
far more than shadows on poor Platos cave.
I LIVE | and DIE | by MY | inTEG | riTY
as MUCH | by STIRR | ing SHIT | for FUN | aLONE
aWAIT | ing BETT | er THINGS |, imPAT | ientLY
and SO | my WORK | is VERY | nearly DONE
The ARR | oGANCE | is CLEAR | to ALL | who SEE
To MAKE | a CHANGE | in OTH | er's WORK | beLIES
a HEART | less SOD | who CARES | too MUCH | to BE
yet WHO | could BLAME | my CARE | for MORE | than LIES?
I BLAME | and SHAME | and CRIT | iCIZE you
would YOU | do LESS | if YOU | CARED for | PROSoDY?
no STRONG | er ART | in ALL | the WORLD | that's TRUE
LESS than | TRUTH is | LESS by | FAR than | PARo | DY
And YET | my LIFE | is ALL | that I | can CRAVE
far MORE | than SHAD | ows ON | poor PLAT | os CAVE.
Comments
in case you missed the 'last few words'
I know the meter is way off. First quick draft. Open to suggestions.
Yet strangely this feels like one of my most honest poems.
Hi Jess
"awaiting results, believe on not, breathlessly"
Am I right to say "on" here is supposed to be "or"?
"see" and "live" doesn't rhyme, that is if I follow Rula's lesson on the rhyming pattern.
You're short of 4 more lines for the sonnet.
Alid
A quick look
You've missed a full stanza jess.The one which decides your volta.
Seems you're really thrilled.(smiles)
Lunch time:) I'll come in an hour or so to see what you've added!!
Rula
The problem is I see just the one stanza when the quadraints are mot separated.
Alid
missing stanza fixed
thanks Rula
14 lines now
meter is still stuffed up, but think it flows.
The volta is, I think, in the last 2 lines.
Open to more suggestions.
fixed some things
more work to do. I haven't written in this form for many years.
Hi Jess
wouldn't it better if you separate the quadraimts to make them more visible for the sonnet form so that the rhyming scheme will be more clearer? its a little difficult for a novice to see it in this current form.
Alid
wiill do
now
does that help?
actually the first 12 lines should not be separated,
only the last two lines should have a line break, but i hope it helps.
yes, it does
I'll see if I can come up with suggestions or we'll just let the experts do the job. After all, I'm not good in the meter as well..
Alid
Oh, I can be very good at meter
when I choose.
The difficulty is explaining it. Regional accents are bad enough but if English is one's second language we can only refer to a good dictionary.
First stanza
I LIVE| and DIE| by MY| inTE|griTY|
and AS| much BY| STIRRing |shit for |fun
aWAITING|ing re|SULTS, be|lieve or| NOT, breath| LESSly
and THEN | my WORK| is VE| ry NEAR| ly DONE
As you can see there are meterical problems in line two and three.
the second stanza
The A|rroGANCE| is CLEAR to ALL| who SEE
To MAKE |a CHANGE| in O |ther's is| WORK be|COMing ( A FOOT IS MORE)
of a |HEARTless |SOD who |CARES too |MUCH to |BE (HALF A FOOT IS MORE)
yet WHO |could BLAME | the CARE| that's MORE| than LI|ving? (HALF A FOOT IS MORE)
As I've said before meter is by far the most difficult thing
I've tried to help with on Neopoet. Use a really good dictionary and it will help somewhere show where stress should be, using phonetic spelling. An English dictionary, but what language are we speaking?
Southern states Americans speak with a French form of accent. Yankees use their own just by being ornery bastards. And we have African, Spanish and and other accents to deal with.
The The Oxford dictionary is the standard and always will be.
The third stanza
ONE LINE IS MISSED
I BLAME |and SHAME |and CRI |tiCIZE| to YOU
would YOU|do LESS|if YOU |CARE for |PROso|DY? (HALF A FOOT MORE)
the[re] IS |no STRONG| er ART| in ALL| the WORLD |that's TRUE (A FOOT IS MORE)
excellent critique
I will work on it, thanks Rula.
the couplet
And YET| LIVing| is ALL |that I |can a CHIEVE
To THIS | beLIEF| is ALL | that TRUTH |can LEAVE
I agree this is a very honest sonnet and very much like you jess. I think you need to give more thought to your volta. I like your theme and will be watching the progress on the metrical problems first.
Let's do it one stanza by one. I will be out with the kids for few hours.
Tonight will come back.
Plato's cave
is not a strong volta?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegory_of_the_Cave
I have no...
constructive criticism to offer, only a comment. I am pleased to see that even a master of the art, can be stumped by this form! This thing is giving me fits! ~ Gee
It is not Plato's cave jess
it is where you should start the volta. It should be on the nineth verse.
Coming too late (in the couplet) doesn't give it the turn you wish. (IMO)
PS.Are you still working on the lines with meter problems that I have parsed for you in each stanza?
oh yes,
and thank you for the excellent parsing.
I would like to say here
that the volta can come late - as with the final couplet in Shakespeare's LXXIII , or even at verse 14 if the poet is skilful enough - an example of this is Philip Sydney's Sonnet LXXI
too tired atm Jess, to comment on your write - I will do a MacArthur :)
love judy
xxx
Interesting
.
There are more variations to the sonnet
beyond merely Spenserian. Artists have used and abused the form for centuries. What we're attempting to produce are "original" sonnet forms. In other words, the form's beginning.
As for stanza breaks... they may clarify things a little, but traditionally Jess is correct. The first twelve lines are a wall of words with only the envoy separate.
An excellent format for a sonnet if you can get the meter under control, but you at the least are doing what I wish everyone would do. Pony up with the rough draft and start a conversation.
That's what the Shark Pool should be all about.
Hey Jess
This shop has made it abundantly clear that I suck at parsing. At least we can both write badly in this cussed form lol. But I Can still count syllables and, thus, feet fairly well so I can comment on that. Here goes :
S-1, l-2 short one syllable
S-2, l-4 one too many syllables
S-3, lines 3 and 4 ditto.
Each time I read a good sonnet which Doesn't sound forced or convoluted I can only envy those who seem able to write sonnets so easily
you suck more more than me, my friend
I know where I went wrong, partially on purpose. Listen to the music of the words. You don't count syllables. I am not saying I have much to correct, I do. And will soon.
so, here's my interpretation
i LIVE | and DIE | by my | in -TEG | -rit –Y
(third foot pyrrhic)
and as | MUCH by | STIRR -ing | SHIT for | FUN
( first foot pyrrhic, the rest trochee , half a foot missing)
a -WAIT | -ing re | -SULTS be | -LIEVE or | not, BREATH | less -LY
(six feet, very out – only one and six iamb)
and THEN | my WORK | is VER | -y NEAR | -ly DONE
(perfect iambic)
The ARR | -o -GANCE | is CLEAR | to ALL | who SEE
(perfect iambic)
To MAKE | a CHANGE | in OTH | -er's is | WORK be | -COM -ing
(six feet - fourth pyrrhic, fifth and sixth trochee)
of a | HEART -less | SOD who | CARES too | MUCH to | BE
(extra half foot – no iambs)
yet WHO | could BLAME | the CARE | that's MORE | than LIV | -ing?
(perfect iambic, but with an extra unstressed syllable at the end - a feminine line – not allowed in this workshop)
i BLAME | and SHAME | and CRIT – | i -CIZE | to YOU
(perfect iambic)
WOULD you | DO LESS | if you | CARED for | PROS – o | -DY?
(five and a half feet and trochee and pyrric))
there is | no STRONG | -er ART | in ALL | the WORLD | that's TRUE
(6 feet – just drop the first – then perfect iambic)
LESS than | TRUTH is | LESS by | FAR than | PAR -od | -Y
(five and a half feet – trochee)
and yet | LIVing is | ALL that | i can | CRAVE
missing half a foot – again pyrrhic and trochee)
FAR MORE | than SHAD | -ows on | POOR PLAT | -os CAVE.
(mixed)
----------------------------
i love the theme ...
hope this helps
love judy
xxx
I think Judyanne
says it all, but I also know this is a rough draft. Just the sort of thing I want to see.
I spoke with Shakespeare in my dream
'''I live and die by my integrity'''
I spoke with Shakespeare in my dream
at me he did scream
'man go read me
all the titles are
all my first lines
if you have any doubt
go and ask my rep ....Jess...
now who ever you are
Loved or not get out
here comes Jess
you say now you are Lovedly
wait till you hear him curiously
'''I live and die by my integrity'''
Title may so it be
I can't do this right now
but promise to do so soon
No.
I'm not going to make any changes.
This is a post-modern sonnet.
ok
Then I'll crit the content....
Great write
Full of verve and what I can only describe as anger
It's not the right word, but I can't really think what I mean. Enthusiasm too is wrong - also frustration ... maybe a mixture of the three... it certainly set up an emotion in me - I think Plato's cave was the crux... seems to set up a sense that you feel you may never get your point across
Lol - don't give up on us Jess.... we'll turn our heads one day, you'll see
love judy
xxx
love you Judyanne
few people get my real intent as you do.
Sorry to throw a spanner in the workshop though.
I said I was done with this but how could I?
Especially having received such fine critique, thanks especially to Rula and Judyanne, parsing is not fun work!
It still contains several metric flaws, the emphasis on contains.
I've also added my, admittedly optimistic, version of the parsing.
Jess
A good time to critique this work but there is nothing to say about the form or content just the theme.
It ends up talking about Plato's cave, now was this reference a reflection not on the wall of the cave but on the wall of life??
Where, what we have encountered in our lives, is the truth, and is real, or has this life been a picture thrown by self indulgence against the wall of reality regardless of what truth is..
Hey that's good for this time of night Eh!
Such a double edged sword I would have loved to talk to Plato, among others but that's life again, one day I shall walk with him along a beach as I will with you, and we shall talk of reality again,
Yours, as always, Ian
Are you familiar with Plato's "Allegory of the Cave"?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegory_of_the_Cave
Yes Jess
I am familiar with the story, I just think it may go deeper than that which it is described.
If you live in normal life with blinkers on, you will believe as many do, that what you perceive is all there is to everything. (Not that you do thank goodness).
I am not sure of the thinking behind this "Allegory" some of the writers of old could see more than many of their time.
I think the story is the base for thinking men to adapt their ways to, by looking outside of their surroundings and seeing what is really there.
Take care young Jess, we have a long way to journey yet,
Yours as always Ian
great work Jess
Just those three lines of that last stanza
what do you think of?
i BLAME | and SHAME | and CRIT | -ic -ise | YOU...
- half an iamb out
i BLAME | and SHAME | and CENS | -ure ALL | of YOU
would YOU | do LESS | if you | CARED for | PROS - i -DY
would YOU | do LESS ? | i CARE | for PROS- | i - DY
LESS than | TRUTH is | LESS by | FAR than | PAR - o -DY
to LESS | -en TRUTH | would BE | a SIMP | -le PAR| -o -DY
goodonnyuhmate for coming back to this... did you enjoy it after all?
love judy
xxx
Thanks so much, Judyanne
I've taken the first two suggestions verbatim. The third I preferred flawed with meaning intact.
Yes, I enjoyed and it was well worth coming back to,
Fucking bravo.
I wanted classically done sonnets from a modern perspective. Relevant.
Thank you. As Mr. Authority Figure I forgive the few instances of license for effect.
The punishment would have been a shark nibble, but...
ta, mate
kinda chuffed myself.
The others have said it all
jess. I am happy you decided to join, and though you did only one sonnet while most of the other sharks did two, I am still satisfied in a way.
Everyone's participation counts.
Thank you
You curse me with faint praise.
It was fucking good work, deviations allowed deliberately.
Didn't mean to be mean Jess
Sorry, if I looked less flattered than I should. I feel a bit down today. You did really well...Nothing wrong in expecting two sonnets from sharks, aren't you a big shark? :)
Sorry again.
yes, I'm the 10 meter White Pointer
from the depths of the ocean. I swallow boats.
I gave what I think is my best sonnet ever, including purposeful deviations from form to strengthen it, whilst being involved in the most active AC since the very first one (which I Chaired).
Hence my whine "damned by faint praise".
You are forgiven.
Jess
A question Jess, I noticed that you put the "too" in
" a heartless sod who cares too much to be"
as unstressed. Shoudn't it be a stressed word?
Alid
A valid and perceptive observation, Alid
I have chosen to play a little bit loose with form here. Listen to the recording and tell me if you think it works, I decided to start my volta a little earlier than planned, so the inversion of meter purposely reflects that.
ok
I think it works.
Alid
no, no problem with that
the meaning is correct.
To elucidate, the line means that one can care so much, too much, that it becomes problematic to even 'be', as in exist. I care too much to exist in what I often see as a foul and filthy world.
There is also a very subtle drug reference to GHB here
though it is not necessary to the understanding of the work,
it can also be regarded as the individual,
the writer, feeling "too" much to be able to continue to exist. This is not suicidal ideation, it is dramatic expression.
Jess
Glad to see you have joined the workshop. I am late to your post, but have learned much following the thread.
Thank you,