RHYME PATTERNS (let's begin)

The shop will begins approx 11:00 AM EST. It will move along but I also realize sufficient time must be allowed for all time zones to participate. This being said please be patient because this shop Can't go as quickly as if we were all in a single time zone

Early start

OK folks I forgot about a 10 o'clock Dr. appointment so let's go ahead and begin the discussion.
Rhyme patterns are fairly easy but also difficult to define because there are so many types. So let's start off by each of ya'll giving your idea/definition of what a rhyme pattern means to you. I'll be back around noon to check up on ya'll

Well....

Not exactly. What you are referring to is unforced rhyme. A hard thing to achieve especially in a long poem.

Hi Mark

This is what all rhyming poets strive for and it is the uses of rhyme patterns which can make this easier to achieve.

rhyming workshop

Mark, is this still open? How do I apply?
Thanks ... Mike

You

are in

Defining

I think of it as one of the ways to impose structure on a poem so that it avoids being prose with line breaks, and one that delights the ear. I know there is also eye rhyme but I tend to think of rhyme in terms of sound.

Now

The pattern of a rhyme debates the repetition and placement of rhyme within a poem. I'll give some examples in next comment. BTW in this shop we will only deal with end rhymes where the rhyming words occur at the end of each line.

Here are the 3 most common patterns :

AABB--the first and second lines rhyme then the third and fourth eg.
My love is like a clear spring day
whose golden sunbeams go their way
and suddenly explode in dew
to sparkle once again like new

ABAB..in which line one and three rhyme and line two and four rhyme eg.
These tall and somber grey pine trees,
I won't begin to guess how old.
whose tops, only, are moved by breeze
mask memories of tales untold.

ABBA..the first and last line rhyme and the second and third line rhyme..eg
I wring the water from some air
then inhale a drippy breath
in a forest near as still as death,
a place I go but seldom share,

Ok these are three rhyme patterns and you might notice the the first one has an almost sing song sound to it and the others not so much. This is mostly a result of the differing rhyme patterns.

Exercise #1

Write a stanza using AABB rhyme pattern. At this point I encourage your thoughts on what has been discussed so far
BTW This is all we will do for the next 20-24 hours so those in different time zones will have time to catch up

AABB

They met in a town of diverse faces,
colors, accents, religions and races,
southerners, northerners, gentiles and jews
immigrants, natives -- but only a few.

consistency

Mark, my question is: does the pattern in the opening stanza have to be maintained throughout a long poem?
Can it be broken up with stanzas of different patterns like ABAB?

The above stanza is the first of 15 still in progress. Maintaining the meter and end rhyme has been a challenge.

Thanks ... Mike

Patterns

There are a few forms which Require a pattern change but not many. But usually the pattern is expected by the reader to be maintained. It is this plus the difficulty of maintaining a decent flow which makes rhyming poetry such a challenge

Hmmmm

The last 2 lines would maintain perfect rhyme by minor change to"immigrants , natives all in the news

Alan: Your critique makes

Alan: Your critique makes perfect sense. Thank you.

Yep

rhyme requires either forethought on the next line or ability to change a line which has already been written. Now as to the second thing, the Sound needs to be the same. In a multisyllabic word the last syllable is what matters. This brings up something else. Accents. In some accents grain and again sound the same in others it doesn't.In Southern American (the only True English lol) Again rhymes with gin.

Hi ted

line 1 and 3 rhyme but the other 2 are near rhyme.

You

got it

Well...

except the pattern you posted is ABAB not AABB

very

good

While bees are keen on honey,

While bees are keen on honey,
men prefer sweet money.
If nectar dearth affects one or the other,
you will see bee against bee, brother against brother.

Very good

What do you think about this particular pattern?

I find it a little heavy

I prefer ABAB. It does have a very strong beat, though. "It's got a good beat and you can [skip] to it." :)

ABAB is my favorite also but many others likely enjoy other

patterns too. The real trick is in choosing the poem which a particular pattern best suits.Most people (including myself) are not able to do this every time

Please keep in mind the number

of lines asked for. I'll ask you also what your opinion of this scheme is

Comedy in poetry

I ran a shop a while back on humor in poetry. In my opinion funny is funny in whatever form

While we are waiting

What are your opinions on mixing rhyme pattern?

Very interesting conversation!

Looking forward to learning! AABB - seems to hold a "cheerier" rhythm than most other rhyming patterns.

It took a little bit of time
to come up with this workshop rhyme,
but here it is, my stanza dear
for those to read, both far and near.

Feel free

to join in. This shop values All opinions

Ya'll continue on

It's late here. I'll be back in about 7-8 hours

high stan and 15

Please just trust, it’s nothing bad
I need to destroy the.......................................................... evidence
Just a little something driving me mad
It won't win a prize for......................................................... elegance
reverence
92
precedence
92
benevolence
92
decadence
92
severance
92
irreverence
92
prevalence
92
malevolence
92
seroprevalence
92
inheritance

Elegance ...........................84 rating
I was not quite happy with elegance
so I went hunting to rhyme zone and found elegance is okay

but with a lower rating you may decide....... others have a rating of 92

Hi loved

Well we are more concerned with patterns in this shop than with the most perfect rhyme. Nice to have you drop in. Sure you don't want to join?

Interesting comment

I seldom read my own stuff out loud until it is finished by I apparently have an "eye" for rhyme because I seldom have to change words to achieve it. Now rhythm is another thing lol

OK( he says with impatient tapping foot)

We are awaiting DiPrima and agirllostinspace to complete their exercises. If you are having problems with the assignment please say so. Shops are for learning but I can't teach if you don't ask (Heck I can hardly teach if yo Do ask lol)

Hello!

I already posted an AABB stanza. So sorry! Was there something else up to this point? I will find a former poem and change it to AABB.
Thank you!
L

Came back to edit. I feel I should no longer participate in the workshop - I don't want to make the group wait. Thank you all for understanding.
L

HI. Alan.

All good, but I really feel it may move a bit faster than I realized.
Thank you so much and I hope you all enjoy!
L

Hello, Alan

I would love to continue, but please don't let me slow things down if I'm running behind. My poetry mode is super-duper slow sometimes. Off to find a free verse to transform to AABB!
Thank you! Thank you!
L

each

exercise will be given a MINIMUM of 24 hours to complete and most will be given more. So no real rush

Great!

Many thanks!
L

i apologize Lavender

That's what I get for only swimming this morning. But we still have to wait a bit on others.

Hi, Stan,

All good! I really feel I may not be able to keep the pace necessary. Thank you so much, Stan. Good luck with the workshop and enjoy!
Many thanks!
L

It

won't be a sprint

Hi, Stan

I am eager to participate and learn, but please do not let me interrupt your schedule or routine. I'll go now and hunt down that free verse and try to transform into an AABB.
Thank you!
L

Hi, Teddy

Thank you! There certainly may be days I might lag behind! :)
L

wellllll, while we are waiting

let's pick out a favorite free verse stanza and change it to an AABB rhyming stanza. Post the free verse then put the rhyming stanza beneath it. I'll start:
There's a man I never met before
yet I know him just the same
and think about him often times
as I pass by a ruined tree stand.

There is a man I never met
but I feel I know him even yet
when I pass by this ruined tree stand
in this ancient forest grand

Either

will suffice

thanks I am learning as and when stan

one lady introduced her own brand of rhyme----- all aaaaaaaaaaa
land bands and grand hand sand and so on she also created some meaningless ones

You may examine scribbler our teacher...i just come to see ur progressing interesting festering lingering herring so I can also signal and as and when ring in final lol

"You will not tame this sea

"You will not tame this sea
either by humility or rapture.
But you can laugh
in its face."
from The Sea and The Man by Swir
----------------------------------------------------
You will not tame this ocean
either by rapture or devotion
But you can caper
in its face

That second couplet was rough.

I think

that is a good idea. Thank you.

caper

and face?

Just rhyming the vowel

as a cheat.

let's

try for closer rhymes from here out. I suspect there are members not quite ready for the more esoteric rhymes

Ha ha!

This looks familiar! :) You've done a great job with this Mark! You've made it look easy!
Thanks!
L

Yes

Preferable the original posted above the other

Hi folks

Everybody so far is doing well. We will wait until about 9:00 PM EST this evening on the ones running behind

See?

To all who think they can't get their message across unless it's in free verse....it Can be done and everybody can do it

Thank you

Thank you for posting this poem. I looked up this poet and read some of his other work and appreciate it very much.

Free Verse to AABB

From OCDC

The bar of soap
sits precisely in the shower
with the dove resting upright
lest she feels the need to fly.

The soap, smelling of coneflower
sits precisely in the shower
with the dove resting upright
lest she feels the need to take flight.

very

good

We will next cover a classic pattern which has been used by generations of poets. The pattern is ABAB. Thought it might look more difficult it actually isn't because by rhyming every other line the writer has more "space" in which to work a rhyme without it seeming forced. So for this exercise we will post a four line stanza using the ABAB pattern. I'll start it off :

I saw an old gate today
made of wood on a stone wall
it sagged so badly it wouldn't sway;
deteriorated says it all

ABAB

Yesterday the sky was blue,
today the sky is gray.
Rain and threatening clouds rushed through
and chased the sun away.

very good

See how this pattern give the writer more freedom of expression?

Hi Alan

The 3rd line is a bit forced I think but this shop is mainly about patterns so you did well

ABAB

To make my kitchen remodel final
about floors I needed to think.
Would tile, linoleum, or vinyl
better handle a flood from the sink?

on

target and good message lol

My mind must be in the gutter today

because of what I visualize about her having ants in her box lmao. Very good

For future thought

Is it ever a good idea to mix rhyme patterns?

If sonnets count, then yes!

Sonnets...SHUDDER

I have yet to write a sonnet that satisfies me. Each one is too blatant that syllable counting was done

I

sometimes break a rhyme scheme especially in last stanza to sum up and emphasize the message. Then there's "Morphing" poetry..........

Now just for fun

Either write or post a 4 line stanza with an ABAB pattern.........then below it post a stanza which maintains the message but changes the end line rhymes. For a change I'll wait until all others have done this.
P.S. Had a hard day. Gonna hit the hay and see ya'll in the morning. In the mean time feel free to keep contributing to the conversation

Hi Alan

You are correct. And sometimes the revised piece can be better than the original. But this exercise is intended to let people see that when stuck on a stanza because you can't find the "right" rhyme and still maintain message it is sometimes easier to start the stanza from scratch

iambs

Alan, I get hung up on maintaining a structure from stanza to stanza. If I start out with an iamb -- ta DAH, ta DAH, ta DAH -- can subsequent stanzas be DAH ta, DAH ta, Dah ta, etc.? Can I mix them up as long as the rhythm and flow are there? To me, end rhymes are easier to achieve than maintaining iambs throughout. Are there general rules about this?
Mike

Yes

there are general rules dealing with meter and even rules which allow for which meter can mix well with other meters. But this shop is not concentrating on meter, it is dealing with rhyme patterns. I expect there will be future shops which will deal with meter that will answer any questions you might have on meter.

Here is a switch in meter

Here is a switch in meter from my first stanza -- "They met in a town o diverse faces..." Is that okay.

Tino was Italian with roots in Sicily.
Molly was a country girl from middle Tennessee.
She was night and he was day,
but opposites attract they say.

or ... should a weak beat be added at the start of each line to maintian the meter set in the first stanza:

Now Tino was Italian with roots in Sicily
and Molly was a country girl from middle Tennessee.
Yes, she was night and he was day
but opposites attract they say.

My ABAB

An Italian guy was he:
charming, suave and handsome.
A country girl was she
with looks and ways quite winsome.

Hello

A nice stanza with the right pattern. Like any well written stanza it makes one want to read the next one lol

Hi Ted

You just proved my above comment. by starting over again you improved the rhyme while maintaining message

Hmmmm

You realize you broke pattern don't you?

my mistake.

I'll blame being tired lol

Sailing

I set sail on a seven-mast schooner
to an island in the sea.
I would have reached land sooner
if my sea legs had accompanied me.

On a seven-mast schooner I sailed
toward a tropical Pacific isle,
but the brawn in my wobbly legs failed,
and I found myself floating the Nile.

Hope I did this correctly! A very fun and challenging exercise!
L

Good

Change. And those legs must have almost come off to carry you that far off course lol

Yes!

They were floating behind me! Just wanted to pass along the word that I will not be returning until later this evening - suppertime. 6:00-ish EST.
Thank you!
L

no problem

return when you can. Nobody can be here all the time

If you are superstitious, you

If you are superstitious, you'll never walk on cracks
When you see a ladder you will never walk beneath it
And if you ever spill some salt you'll throw some 'cross your back
And carry 'round a rabbit's foot in case you need it
from Superstitious by Shel Silverstein
------------------------------------------------------------------
If you are superstitious, on a crack you'll never halt
When you see a ladder, underneath you'll never go
And you'll throw some 'cross your back if you ever spill some salt
And just in case you need it, wear a cornicello

well done

Now for the uninformed like me what the heck is a cornicello?

Amulet

It's an amulet that looks like a hot pepper used to ward off the "evil eye." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornicello

Yes, Mark should have taken

Yes, Mark should have taken one to Patty's den.

Announcement

Agirllostinspace and DiPrima have both been AWOL and have neither one returned PM about their not showing up. I'm not going to kick them out but from now on I will not be waiting on them before moving on to next exercise.
One other thing, this line is getting bulky. Any objections to me opening up another page?

OK

I will post my stanza then set up page 2

My ABAB and changed rhyme

These old ones write in the old style
with a flow of near perfection
with tales that make folks cry or smile
or pause and give them deep reflection.

These old poets write in the old way
and every one with perfect flow
telling a tale of their own day
so latter ones like us will know

PS

Any comment on my exercise should be on this page. I will post page two in an hour or so

I saw...

that your lines changed in length, when I was reading yours
and when I did my own, I was convinced that it would be very hard to
make the lines the same length as the ones before. I think this says something about
the reason why people find rhyming so hard. It takes a bit of forethought to make the
lines the same pattern and rhythm and rhyme too.

Being a rhymer, comes natural to me
And I have a leg up on you
Sorry to be so late, but you see
I had so very much to do

It comes natural, my love of rhyme
One up and stand on one leg
You see I'm sorry, I'm not on time
Your pardon, I'm going to beg.
.

This

shop deals with rhyme patterns not rhythm.I am not capable of running a shop on perfect scansion

Sorry...

I wasn't trying to change the workshop, it was just an observation. How did I do?
.
.

I was

reminding the entire shop so we didn't stray from course

Hello, Stan!

Is there now a page two?
Thanks!
L

I hope this shop will reveal the manner in which rhyme patterns

can be used to avoid rhymes which seem forced

But

not always to a beginner

Stan

May I join?

Scribbler

Can I sign up for the remaining exercises?............PJ

This is

getting really late..................but I'll let you in on condition you review the entire shop up to this point. Leave a comment here and there to let me know you have done this. Welcome aboard

Thank you Scribbler,

Thank you Scribbler,
Be careful what you wish for.........

"That is a great self portrait." - no Alan, the ears are far too small.

Lesson Differentiation

Scribbler, I live in US/CT and have found it hard to keep up with when one lesson starts and the next begins. Especially since the sidebar dates are slow in changing. I think it would be helpful if "Assignment 1" or "Lesson 1" -- along with the date it was assigned -- were displayed more prominently. This is my first workshop, so forgive the dumb questions, but since you are the leader/teacher, I assume all assignment responses are directed to you and that your comments are the ones I should most heed. Others can offer constructive criticism, I understand that, and I suppose my two-cents can be thrown in as well. But, as they say down home, "you da man" Please correct me if I'm wrong. Thanks ...
Mike DiPrima

Good idea

I'm not CST but I also think numbering the assignments would help, especially since the threads get long. I feel like I missed an assignment somewhere but am not sure.

Agree. Numbering assignments

Agree. Numbering assignments would help.

Arrow and DiPrima

That's a good idea but don't ya'll think it might be a bit late to ask me to go back and label each assignment? DiPrima, perhaps by just reading my posts you can determine when each assignment begins?

Maybe starting . . .

now! Just with a date.

OK

But there are few assignments let..........

Last line permissible?

Stan:i

The last line of this stanza feels okay to me, but technically is it too long and is the near-rhyme okay?

And so they wooed and got betrothed,
but before they dared to take the oath
the parents had to meet each other --
the Sicilian Cicirellis and the Tennessee Caruthers.

Well

since this shop is dealing with rhyme pattern the flow or scansion is not that important.In third line you could write "The parents had to meet all others" would tighten up the rhyme without affecting message I think.

Glasgow

Glasgow
a rhyming poem by John Hegley

as we walk across the bridge across the Clyde
I talk of the tide
and the spring
and the spring in the suspension
but do not mention our tension
is there any hope of a bridge over that divide
Stephen
a rope even
or must we remain as strangers
like the Pope and Glasgow Rangers

Description:An exploration of how various rhyme patterns can be used

Leader: scribbler
Moderator(s): Mark

Objectives: To get folks to start considering using different rhyme patterns and showing the almost infinite variety of these patterns

Level of expertise: Open to all

Subject matter: How rhyme pattern can be used in poetry