wesley snow

Mar 30, 2013

This poem is part of the workshop:

Show And Tell: Intensive Critique Workshop

(Read More...)

Leaders: BlueDemon77and weirdelf

Moderators: weirdelf, beauregard

Description: Each participant will submit one poem they feel needs work, one they are having trouble perfecting, or feel is under-appreciated. One other participant will be assigned to give it a vigorous critique at every level. Some of the areas or topics of the critique would include
- form, rhyme, assonance, consonance, meter, poetic technique (metaphor, alliteration, ect.) and how effective it is to the readers understanding of the work. Ultimately the critic should quantify the poem, including how well it works and how it relates to the content
- content, what the content is, whether it is significant, meaningful, true. What is revealed by exposition and in -subtext. Do you agree with it the writers opinion as you see it? Why?
- style, is the poem well crafted?, is there a strong lexis? Interesting and creative use of language?
- imagery, what imagery is used, what kinds, how effective is it?
-emotional content, what are the feelings evoked? Are they "universal'? Are they genuine or masked by sentiment?
- epiphany, does the poem change you? Have a significant impact on your way of seeing the world? If not does it matter? What does it give you?
- redemption, does the poem offer an insight into the human condition? The betterment of the species? Political understanding? Does it need to?

Subjective impressions are encouraged. You’ll give the poem a thorough working over.

Then other participants will critique the critique itself.

Finally the original poet has a right of reply and can submit a revised version.

Objectives: To hone our skills in critique to enhance our undertanding of poetry and be better able to give fellow poets menaingful feedback to help improve their craft.

Please remember to tick “Show And Tell- Intensive critique” in the workshop box on the poem submission page and include “(Shark Pool Show and Tell)” after the title of your poem.

We’ll open with a discussion of critique.

This will be challenging for both those critiquing and those being critiqued. Complete honesty is the best approach. This is a unique opportunity to have group attention and focused critique to a piece or pieces of your choosing (we can always begin anew if the group is interested in doing so). This workshop can help our critical abilities as well as our ability as poets. Leave the kid gloves at home though, this is Shark Pool. While we will have a policy of 'across the board' respect, the key to the success of the workshop is honesty in the critiques.

Please join us!

Ron and Jess

Level of expertise: Open to all

This workshop is closed.

Seeing

I spied a Sylph upon a lily leaf
and watched her sail- a Captain on the sea.
She dared at speed the knife edge of the coral reef.
She fought the squall with laughter cold and free.

A lotus bloom her banner, spider’s in her lines,
their weavers by the dozen were her crew.
Her emerald gaze was sharper than the flashing tines
of Neptune’s triple scepter sea steel blue.

With but a hand braced to the mizzen mast,
she flaunted wind, the rain and cried aloud.
The crew held to their posts as in times past
and list to her… a most attentive crowd.

“Where go ye wind, I go as well,
for you will press me on to find my doom.
We’ve seen Valhalla’s Light and torched our way through Hell
and saved the curséd Queen of Ikanlum.”

Her cries came to my ear full strangely wrought
and so unlike all tongues heard hitherto.
Imagine my keen wonder as my thought
was privy to her meaning through and through.

Her voice was harsh and sultry; tinged with rage,
but righteous honor did the tone infuse.
While all her words were steeped in hoary age,
a weird as red chiffon hung round her cruise.

“Then press me to Elysium my friend,
for I grow weary of my life at sea.
Yes, I would feel the thistledown; my soul to mend,
and choose once more another thing to be.”

The ship sailed black horizons out of sight.
My heart grew heavy feeling what I shared
was but an instant in an epic fight
and that- an interlude of all she dared.

How do we, after knowing the impossible,
return and tread the pathways we have known?
When mystic faith becomes a thing as palpable
as raindrops, lily leaves and glist’ning stone.

About This Poem

Last Few Words: I'm way late on this, so I don't expect to have it involved in the workshop, but I'm getting my schedule put back together and this is part of it. The poem is a bit of deviation for me as I allowed myself the luxury of letting the meter run itself within a framework. Don't know if it worked, but I'm trying to "loosen up" as Stan once suggested to me.

Style/Type: Structured: Western

Review Request Direction: What did you think of my title?
How was my language use?
What did you think of the rhythm or pattern or pacing?
How does this theme appeal to you?
How was the beginning/ending of the poem?
Is the internal logic consistent?

Review Request Intensity: I want the raw truth, feel free to knock me on my back

Editing Stage: Editing - polished draft

About the Author

Region, Country: Southern California, USA

Favorite Poets: Tolkien

Comments

Agree with beau

But this was my favourite

I spied a Sylph upon a lily leaf
and watched her sail- a Captain on the sea.
She dared at speed the knife edge of the coral reef.
She fought the squall with laughter cold and free.

ello Wesley

This really is an outstanding poem I loved all of it and yes I am gushing I love the subject matter and I think Stan was right you should loosen up more often

I loved that ending

How do we, after knowing the impossible,
return and tread the pathways we have known?
When mystic faith becomes a thing as palpable
as raindrops, lily leaves and glist’ning stone.

the rhythm was superb as I was reading it was like listening to a heartbeat

thanks for posting

sincerely Jayne-Chloe

Well darn.

Here I thought everyone would say my loose metrical line would annoy everyone and all I get is praise. Looks like I have to rethink my poetry. Thank you for all the kind words. I did enjoy this one. It was one of those that sort of wrote itself.

PRAISE YOU DESERVE

for exquisite poetry yet unheard

I don't know if Jess will shoo us all away

There's not been any official critique yet. But my, Wesley, this is beauty!

What I found most pleasant about the poem was the last-but-one stanza. It created that familiar wish-I-had-more-but-getting-closer-will-spoil-the-wonder feeling I note with such stories.

I was surprised when I found the meter going astray, but your explanation in the last bit makes sense. That gave me a little problem, but the beauty of the language made me ignore it.

I only wonder why you use both Valhalla and Elysium. Great poem!

Interesting you should note both "Heavens".

I'm reading Riordan's "The Kane Chronicles" (I wholly recommend them). In it we are privy to the conflicts of Egyptian Gods, but in two separate instances we are told that Egyptian magicians try to stay out of Manhattan as "they have their own problems". Carter and Sadie even see ethereal "lights" above the horizon suggesting big events are taking place. Well of course, those "big" events are the battles of Greek and Roman Gods in "Percy and the Olympians" (Riordan's other series of books).
The idea that all of the gods existed at once rather intrigued me.

Waiting on Jenifer

What can I do?

Wesley, Impressive work!

I will admit the chameleonic meter did bother me at first. It was only as the momentum of the piece continued that I saw what a small flaw to mention in such a well done and accomplished work. I especially think the last two lines are as good as anything I've read in poetry. Simple statements so profound, I tend to look for keys or codes to try to figure them out. Here, you've just displayed them. Beautiful work Wesley!

Ron

Thank you Ron.

The meter thing was hard for me. Not to do actually, but rather it was hard to "allow" myself the freedom to simply speak with my poetic voice. Stan has been encouraging me to "loosen up" for some time now as I have a tendency to produce poetry so mechanically correct that I lose much of the emotion I would intend.
I don't have that problem in my large poem so much, but there I'm given the advantage of "storytelling" which comes quite easily to me. If I don't have a tale to tell and must rely on the beauty of a few lines to move my reader it becomes very difficult for me.
Strangely, the last stanza was an "add-on" as I felt the poem needed a "point". I too was pleased with the outcome (especially considering my penchant for over working my poetry).

You are a Ginsberg to my Kerouac......

This isn't literal of course, our styles are completely different than the two poets listed. The relevence is that Kerouac believed the power of poetry was putting things down in the moment and that any reworking diluted the work. Ginberg on the other hand, obsessively revised. I revise also but I can see what you refer to as the "mechanical correctness" of your work. I admire it because I don't have it myself. My rhyming and meter tend to happen more organically, sometimes to the detriment of the work (as you noted the forced nature of the rhymes in Predatory). I like to work improv and do spontaneous writings as a base then shape it. I've written long narratives in poetry at stages in my life but even these were more effortless (my mind's eye sees you with a slide rule, an electron microscope and a metal lathe). I think what this poem is very good and I say strive to release your voice from the cage of your craft. This is one hell of a start!

Ron
BlueDemon77

Hi Wes

Dang it ! I'm gonna follow the shop directions though it kill me lol. Just dropping in to let you know I read it but I'll await the time I'm Supposed to give input....................stan

Hi Beau

I think the poem is supposed to be critiqued by the assigned critic, the critique is then critiqued by members and Then the members critique the poem. But jess has assigned himself to this I believe and he has now posted his ideas..................stan

Workshop Critique for "Perspective"

(I've decided to do it myself rather than keep you waiting, Wesley)

I was touched by this piece in a very particular and personal way, which you will understand if you read John Masefield's "Jane" http://www.neopoet.com/weirdelf/blog/mon-2013-04-08-1331
That poem, along with Judith Wright's "Legend" http://www.neopoet.com/comment/86624#comment-86624 were the poems that made me want to be a poet.

I love that you are stretching yourself to loosen up, you have succeeded admirably, the effect is between 'flow' and 'meter' and there is nothing wrong with that.

The plurality of mysteries and references works well in context, although Ikanlum bemused me a little, it is asterisked with no note and neither Google nor Wikipedia reveal anything, I assume it is from your own mythologies although I couldn't find it in your other works either.

It is a poem that really rewards reading aloud, I recommend it to everyone. Although the process does reveal a few small trips caused by the free meter. I am purposely refraining from mentioning those trips specifically as I'm sure you are aware of them and I mostly want to support this direction you are working on.

Just for the hell of it, to make one specific crit, the line
she flaunted wind, the rain and cried aloud.
bothers me a little. The wind, the rain or wind and rain, which would break the flow, so how about
she flaunted wind and rain and cried aloud.

I am not at all sure about the title. The word itself rings too modern for the style. Perhaps 'Deep Seen', 'Far Seen', or even just 'Seen' or 'I Saw'

Love the poem mate, it speaks to me, is elegantly and stylishly written and very readable.

Did we see

an epiphany with this poem?

If Wesley's poem touched you so much (and knowing your critical tastes) then I'd say it was bloody awesome. You don't seem to have any real problem with this poem. I find that the suggestion you gave makes for a smoother read. The "and"s roll of the tongue :)

For a title, I'll rather suggest "A Glimpse", but "I Saw" has this childish feeling that goes well with the spirit of the poem. Quite well balanced critique, but obviously biased. You love the poem. And the poet.

That said, who can find anything wrong with Wesley's verse?

Hi Jess

There's not a damned thing wrong with liking a poem and saying so. The main thing I found "wrong" with you critique was the reference and linking to two other poems you like. A bit lazy don't you think? "I like this because it reminds me of this which I also like". But you Did then get on to specifics so maybe that can be overlooked.

I liked the way you said that the meter slips were over-ridden by the tale and beauty of the work over all. I think far too many are chained by the pursuit of perfect rhythm and as a result often sacrifice clarity to it...............stan

It is fun having Jess truly like one of my poems.

His overlooking the meter problems were rather personal toward me, but I'll overlook it.

A friend of mine recently bought a toy and I can't get a phone call without being regaled with its glory.
She endlessly tells me now... "I can loom".
That's all that was.

Critque of Critique

Solid poem. Solid critique. Not much more to say that hasn't already been covered.

Ikanlum (I can loom)

really?

8 men out

Yeah, really.

She's driving me nuts.

But I confess it's pretty cool to know I have a coaster made out of fabric that someone I'm acquainted with weaved with her own hands.

Art is art

Word, spoken or woven!

I would have liked

the critic to ask the author how does the last stanza relate to the title and the rest of the poem. I think the critic-like me, thinks that the language beauty veils any possible flaws in this piece,if any.

Ah.

That last verse is one of the strange things that keep happening to me as I continue my ongoing discussion with god.
I had finished the poem and was pleased, but somehow it seemed lacking. It argued as if the poem needed me to offer some sort of "point" to the whole thing. At first I felt the poem could stand on its own without an addition, but I gave it whirl and the last stanza was born.
It relates to having seen something wholly fantatic (I mean really... sylphs captaining a ship on a lilly leaf?) and then following that "revelation" trying to carry on with business as usual. Personally if I actually saw a sylph on a lily leaf with spiders working web lines on a ship I would check myself into an institution that deals with that sort of thing, so certainly NOT business as usual.
But then of course, I refer to my having "spoken" to god and... for the first time heard something in response. I cannot pretend to live life "business as usual". Either I'm truly psychotic, hearing strange voices or I have had the beginnings of an epiphany. At any rate... never again "business as usual".
I have had several comments that consider the last stanza to be a very special part of the poem and of course, it is what you and I together used to name the poem.
Perspective is everything.

And yet...

I still feel that the title is a mismatch stylistically with the poem.

I really don't like it.

I agree.

I am not good at titles. It's easier just to call it "a poem in iambic something or other". Any suggestions?

Remember?

I've suggested "The Revival" or " The Rebirth" but now I'm thinking of. " A Fantastic Journey"
Let's see what others think

Glimpse

I thought "Glimpse" would work. Or "Seeing".

I'm liking "Glimpses",

but don't stop now... you're on a roll poets.

Hi Wes

I think everybody has numerous encounters with the world beyond this one. I also think the last stanza does well in reflecting how such an accepted encounter sharply divides one's life into a before and after phase. Your style does well in conveying the rest of the poem as being "fableish". To make an even cleaner break between that part and the last stanza, perhaps shorter lines would help (would mirror how an epiphany can simplify one's world view). I'll give you an idea how this could be done :
How after knowing the impossible
can we retread the pathways known
when faith is now as palatable
as raindrops, leaves and glistening stone?

Just an alternate you could think about and probably improve upon..................stan PS a title alternative? "When The Page Turns"

precarious glimpses

precarious peering
fateful sight

More?

"When I found God"

This workshop is now ended.

Please give me feedback, either on the workshop thread
http://www.neopoet.com/workshop/show-and-tell-intensive-critique-worksh…
or by PM, as to how you benefited from the workshop, criticisms and ways future workshops could be improved,

This is a poem from my archives I read again.

I have changed the title as was suggested, but still don't like it. Any thoughts anyone? Most of you have read this, but didn't offer title changes. Maybe you could now.

OH

So THIS is the one you wanted title help with. Guess you can discard my comment on "Mommy" lol. Let me see if i can come up with two thoughts in a single evening.....G..r...u..n..t........better stop that much straining lest I fart ...................hmmmm................hmmmmm...................be right back, gotta read it again.............hmmm.............how about "Reflections on Recollections"? A bit long but who knows?

I like it!

I'm gonna use it.

I have to say

I'm sorry, but the meter bothered me a lot .... especially the longer lines.... but I guess that is only me being pedantic, as I see everyone else seemed to like it

As for the title ....
mystic ken
- but I see you already have decided on Stan's suggestion....
Love judy
xxx

I'm afraid (sorry Stan) I don't like it either.

Mystic Ken is good. This is harder than I thought. I hate titles.
The meter is pretty loose. This was probably the first poem I wrote with the idea I would relax and write as it felt and not how classical structure says it should be. I know the structure, I'm at the point I need to start "abusing" it a little.
But did you like my little pirate? Ah, the adventures she's having and I only caught a glimpse of it.