we are at the bridge
in a balancing act
between Dionysus
and Apollo -
primitive apes and
civilized human beings
attempting to harmonize
instinctual wholeness
immediacy
primal joy
and
self-controlled
sober
scientific rationale
really
a very unstable condition
.
Comments
Very well done, not a wasted word.
As someone who walks that tightrope constantly, I especially appreciated your knowledge and agreement on the subject.
Ron
thank you ron
for the kind review
love judy
xxx
Loved the text and the subtext of this write dear Judy
I loved the mythical references starting by the Odyssey to the Gods of light and fertility
I too very much like how you connected between that journey of Odyssey and the journey of life as it adds an extra dimention to the description
I however couldn't find much logic beween the beginning of the poem
we are at the bridge
in a balancing act (especially here)
and its end
a very unstable condition
I think it can easily be fixed as you may either loose the second line or say "trying to balance"
as this goes well with the rest of your piece where you said
attempting to harmonize
instinctual wholeness
immediacy
primal joy
and
self-controlled
sober
scientific rationale
Muchly enjoyed the authinticity of this piece dear Judy .
Thanks for sharing.
thank you rula
great review
perhaps your problem with the logic is in ‘balancing act’. it is possibly a colloquialism. when one is juggling a couple of things – as for example a woman with a job and kids – she does a ‘balancing act’
the idea of the poem is in the thought of not becoming too ‘civilised’ that we lose our ‘joy in the moment’…. even perhaps our empathy… as a species and as an individual – imo it is an unstable position to be in every day, the juggling of rationalism with emotion...
hope that makes it more sense for you
love judy
xxx
hi beau
Thanks for the thoughts.
Just to clarify where I am coming from here - Apollo and Dionysus are allusions to Nietzsche’s The Birth of Tragedy.
Apollonian being the basis of all analytic distinctions, and the Dionysian being directly opposed to the Apollonian, and although it include drunkenness and madness, all forms of enthusiasm and ecstasy are Dionysian, for in such states man gives up his individuality and submerges himself in a greater whole: music is the most Dionysian of the arts, since it appeals directly to man's instinctive, chaotic emotions and not to his formally reasoning mind.
so i wasn't attempting to use primitive as primitive per se -
According to Nietzsche, ‘man is a bridge between the ape and the Superman’, and the true human tragedy is the conflict between these two states.
hope that clarifies why I used the terms.
perhaps i need to re-think the words 'primitive apes'...
thanks again beau
love judy
xxx
Hi Judy!
Consider Camille Paglia's theory of Appolonian/Cthonic. I don't agree with many of her conceits but I think this one has merit. Male-Female, Sun-Moon, Classical-Romantic. She is against the use of Dionysian because of the intoxication aspect which she feels isn't necessarily a part of the Cthonic equation.
Ron
thanks ron
thanks ron
i hadn't heard of either Camille Paglia or her theory of Appolonian/Cthonic. i shall look it up and have a think on its suitability - appreciated
love judy
xxx
My pleasure Judy!
Whatever you get out of anything I share will be a pittance of what I get from your art.
Ron
dynamic bind
the string heart rings
and tinfoil wishs
wrapped round
what was the chord miss struck
that forbade me from being brought
down by that truck
I turned somehow to a word
a thought a look
that needed an ending
to the mending
alone in the bath
while the walls wept
and the fan cried its
nocturnal monotone
the rain singing down
the vent in quiet when
candles lept to the
dark corners
where this spirit my tempest
heart flies..
to her
my polar opposite
nice to have stability
the quiet monotone
chromatic love
and yet how vivid
cutting deep rich
and pain awed the
wieild of a make
that is not for this
world
tis better to have loved
and lost then never have
loved at all
how true
I can never look back
and say..
what was I thinking..
I always think of Love
when odessey comes to mind
female male sides
twins competing
settling
or the inner egos struggling
doctor j and mister h
never happens no ones in control
for long
build monuments and burn down
a civilization for the ghost
societies to ponder and relearn
struggle of inner egos
yes, i like that
thanks esker
love judy
xxx
Critique WS
What makes an impression on me in this poem is the word choice. It starts with the title.
Odyssey rightfully evokes a sense of journey. As a fan of Greek mythology, this stirs me within and increases my expectation.
Your using the greek gods at opposite ends of the bridge pleases me, but I have a problem with Apollo appearing opposite Dionysus. It seems more proper that Athena would have been better suited in Apollo's place. She seems more rational and scientific.
I'm not sure if you were trying to draw on Apollo's associattion with poetry, but his presence there doesn't bring out the contrast well enough for me.
But you carry on your theme well through the second and third stanzas. Contrasting "primitive apes" against "civilized human beings" makes it seem as if you're judging the Dionysus side harshly, but the tone becomes more balanced in the third stanza.
You may notice that I didn't mention any of the devices we discussed in the WS. I get confused when everything begins to look like a metaphor.
To conclude, I didn't find much of a journey in this poem. I was stuck on a bridge, trying to chose which way to go.
I find this poem both very charming, yet "lacking" in quite a few areas; those may be due to my expectations. Other than that, it works well with me.
Suggestion
If the poem had begun with
"we have arrived at the bridge
in a balancing act"...
It would have captured the essence of a journey.
Thanks William for the great
Thanks William for the great critique.
you have met the requirements for the critique workshop with your suggestion and comments.
re your comments, most answers are in my comments above – especially those to beau re the allusion to Nietzsche’s The Birth of Tragedy. this poem has obviously failed in its message – only I can take the blame for that…. as I said to beau - perhaps i need to re-think the words 'primitive apes'...
and – no – I wasn’t attempting to use Apollo’s association with poetry…
but I do find it interesting that ‘stuck on a bridge’ was just where I was trying to leave the reader - According to Nietzsche, ‘man is a bridge between the ape and the Superman’, and the true human tragedy is the conflict between these two states – it truly is an unstable place to be imo…
and I like your suggestion re the beginning and the bridge – I will think on it … truth is though – I have lost interest in this poem as it obviously hasn’t said what I was trying to say…
thanks again
and thanks for your contribution to the critique workshop
love judy
xxx
comment field..
I gaze therefore I see....
"primitive Ape" I like this here
The chimpanzees are brutal in defending territory
and taking mates...like humans if one makes
it to adulthood one is doing well indeed
Jane Goodhall documented this as did Dianne Fossey
before poachers moved in..
The last of these beings are being removed
mans incessant pacing and timbre use
consuming the living canopy
In the psych wards I saw the newly recruited to the
fifties floors debriefed and crawling down the halls
locked in the bubble rooms or converted to zombies
with the tranqs of our modern era
In my travels I sat discussed and was near many
top level people of fields elaborate
worked in construction of modern monuments
but we as modern enlightened souls retain the
primitive brain and the reptilian brain
and the enlightened brain
We can pick up volcanic glass tools still
or scalpels and lasers
And the thousand and more years of tragedy
is here beyond our fingertips and memories
I read much on the Apes
Both women observant authors
and on the greeks in their times
we today multiply and hoard upon the
earth bringing our destruction in the form
of aid and control
we are the trojan horse
like missionaries of old with viruses
in their caring breath
we Live in a time where the earths
wealth is being devoured
as Poets what can we say
The greeks recorded volcanic eruptions
and died in the ensuing fallout
or were stabbed in land attacks
working out math issues
As poets would we give our lives
to Neitche or Fossey to help
educate
how can we here>
We have apes in a View Safarie
its fun.. They tear off trim and wiper blades
or puncture tires the Lions when bored
African Wild Safari here its called
I once almost got stranded in Humber
a rough part of Toronto
The bus driver made sure I made ti to
the Four Hundred North Cloverleaf
and made it over the fence... I thanked
him for my life!!!!
which he saved..
I love this poem Judy Anne for making
us think from the classic start
where the Latin love came from
in England from Roman occupation
to the occupatin of North America
and beyond
I never read Neitche
they My Intelligencia friends wanted me
too
if I can read dianne f
then I can read him
thank You for this thought recovery and
discovery!!
Mr Esker
thank you steve
you have made me feel a little better about the write - lol - at least you are on my wave length :)
love judy
xxx
hi Judy
Pretty much describes where the world is today. But that word "bridge"............maybe fulcrum or tipping point would be more accurate. now I'll sit back and let you lecture me why I'm wrong lmao.............stan
lol - never wrong stan
i used 'bridge' as it is a 'joining' symbol as well as to depict a journey not finished
- considering your suggestions...
thanks stan
love judy
xxx