Rula
Rula
May 27, 2013
This poem is part of the workshop:

THE THEORY OF RELATIVITY (poetically speaking) Beginning

(Read More...)

To Make it Brief (The Theory Of Relativity WS)

If you're an adult
or a child,
civilized or
living in the wild,
let mother nature
guide, nurture and lead,
then all you need
is to imitate
what she would
naturally
illustrate.

God has always
educated mothers
what they need
to educate.

About This Poem

Review Request Intensity: I want the raw truth, feel free to knock me on my back

Editing Stage: Editing - rough draft

About the Author

Region, Country: Jordan, JOR

Favorite Poets: I favor the ones who are closer to humanity and

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More from this author

Comments

S

Very good selection...............stan

weirdelf

is to try and point out why the reader didn't "immerse" in the poem.

Well, you know the word 'god' is going to lose more than half your readership.

The most important thing though is, as John Keats said 'Beauty is truth, truth beauty,'

Teh poem is not true. The final stanza is a lie.
God has always
educated mothers
what they need
to educate.

it may be true of animals, but not even all of them. Young female animals, separated at birth from their mothers, do not know how to care for their young. And god never taught anyone anything, just people like Mohammed and Jesus did, and a lot of what they said was aggressively nasty.

Whilst can tell stories in poetry, telling lies will always reach a part of the reader's mind and they will dismiss it. Except perhaps on Hallmark cards.

Rula

that we keep at least the minimal respect between us (both as humans first and poets second). "lies" !! IS a "STRONG LANGUAGE"
Whatever the differences, we are here to convey whatever the message(s) without hurting each other..
I think we can convey whatever we want to say without using a
"strong language" such as "Nasty"  to describe God's messangers like Mohammad, Esa, Mosa, Noah,.....etc. (peace be upon them)
I waited someone to defend what you've said about Esa(Jesus) as I know he's someone's God,not only a messanger, but really astonished to see that no one came to, so I found it's MY DUTY to do so as it has been all mentioned in my thread.

I know there are at least three or four atheist in this web site, but none has really ever spoken or tried to be this aggressive . 

Rula

Rula

11 years 11 months ago

You're raising here a completely new point here which is different cultural, political and religious backgrounds.
When we write, should we consider the believers, the non believers and the atheists as well. Should the author really sacrifice his beliefs to get a wider range of readers, or should he/she reflect on what he/she believes no matter who is going to read for him/her?

weirdelf

to get a wider readership. I agree.

Yet you must consider that assumptions about belief will certainly alienate some readers.

I am probably an extreme example here, as I am an intolerant atheist. You could consider that though others might not express themselves so forcefully, they will certainly dismiss out of hand a poem that expresses religious beliefs.

Ian.T

Ian.T

11 years 11 months ago

The first part was fine then came the last Stanza:-
God has always
educated mothers
what they need
to educate.
This after all the natural acknowledgement that life happened.
You can't blame any God or figurehead or say they educate a mother, in all countries of the world no matter what they believe in Mothers become Mothers Bless them.. They are Blessed with the instinct of unconditional love that is free to all, what they do with it or who they thank for it is always a bad talking point..
I would substitute Nature for God in the last Stanza it would run true to the first part of the poem.
Sorry I can't blame God for much, as I have a nasty belief that we made him in our image, not the other way about,
Yours with love to you, Ian.T

Rula

Rula

11 years 11 months ago

Thanks again for pointing that out. According to my beliefs , God is the creator of all; Mother nature , the mothers , me and you and every thing else. If I change to Nature, this would completely contradict with all my beliefs.

I am not blaming any one here for any thing , espically God.

As I said earlier, our writings may not at one point or another hold everyone's attention(due to different political , religious and/or cultural backgrounds ) or I might disagree with the poet, so I would either simply say I disagree or agree with you re so and so,can't we?

Ian.T

With your beliefs then it has to be God, I sometimes say to you that you walk with your God, this is fact throughout the world it is just other points of reference that can contradict.
For you not to acknowledge your God in this way would not be right,
You take care of all you believe in, as that is a right of all people on this Earth.. Yours with unconditional love, Ian.T

wesley snow

What is "true" is what it is, but mankind can only express a perspective. Whether he/she comes close or far from the mark is apocryphal. The poet can ONLY express what the poet is. We can imitate the feelings, beliefs, perspectives of others (this is called "fiction"), but deliberately expressing something antithetical is counterproductive unless used as characterization in "fiction". Beauty is in the pen of the poet and the most beautiful poetry will always be that which expresses what is central to the poet producing the poem.
Never shy from what you KNOW Rula.

wesley snow

truth cannot be known. We have only the evidence of our senses and those can be deceived. Whatever "truth" is... it is, but we can ONLY know what we think it is. What we don't know, we don't know we don't know. Whatever the "real" truth is we can only guess that we perceive part of it rightly. We can NEVER absolutely know if what we understand to be real is truly real.
Rula, I have (this is weird) never heard the name "Esa". Do you know where this name came from? What language is it? As for defending them... I don't bother because I personally don't think any of the sages of past days need defending. They and their wisdom have taken care of themselves quite adequately for thousands of years and don't need my help. Those who seek them will find them, those who do not may find them also. I am learning to trust these days and it has been a remarkable and enlightening adventure.
But tell me about Esa... in a PM if you're more comfortable.

Rula

please click on
this link
which is on the first line. I don't why it refused to lead directly to that page.
Hope this answers your question sir.  

Rula

Thanks for your adds. I appreciate it.
Was the link helpful enough?

E

Rula, I don't believe that your poem immerses the reader because the audience has been greatly limited. Who is the poem written to? If it's to me as a civilized adult, is it too late for me to follow the described path? If I have followed the path, then this is a description of how I arrived where I am at. I know the title calls for brevity, but I wouldn't want to read brief in that scenario. I would want grand.

If you are writing to a civilized child, is the described path defined well enough for them to understand/comprehend? In other words, is the true message getting through? If I am an adult living in the wild, I have most likely chosen not to read this poem or any other poem. If I am a child living in the wild, I most likely can't read.

There is also an internal logic issue that separates me from the poem. In S1, mother nature is referenced as the guide that is to be followed. In S2, God has always educated mothers. Has God educated Mother Nature who educates the mothers or are the mothers being directly educated?

With regards to the talk about religion, I am probably about to step into a big pile of dung before I stick my foot in my mouth, but I feel compelled to say it anyway. When I read poetry, I do my best to have an open mind despite the fact that life's experiences dictate that I cannot. I am willing to go wherever the poet takes me. I do not believe in God the way that Rula does or anyone else for that matter, but I did not dismiss the poem based on one word. If she had used "hairdressers" instead of "God" this discussion would not be taking place.

Just because I do not believe in Rula's God does not mean that I cannot extract emotion from the poem. I often write about subjects that most readers have not experienced and I hope never have to. As the poet, I am trying to draw my picture of the topic for you to see. You may feel sadness, anger, pity, happiness, elation, relief, confusion, disgust. It doesn't matter. Color it however you want to. Whether or not you believe in Rula's God, Rula has an emotion associated with her God and is trying to convey that to the reader. It is not our job to challenge belief systems. We are here to help her convey her message in the best manner she can.

Thanks,

Scott

Rula

Appreciate your comment and your respectful and open-minded response
I am not here to defend as much as to clarify.
When I refered to the audiance that you've mentioned, let's say it was only a metaphorical audiance, so the audiance could have been anybody else, I didn't mean only those people in particular, so am I to be blamed? Sure if that wasn't clear for my readers.

As for the internal logic, I admit that I added stanza 2 later . I felt that there was something wrong talking about mother nature as who teaches us. It is not capable of course to do this by itself. Just then Gee and Beau who were the only ones to comment on this post, suggested that I might need to add more verses.
So there I added the second stanza which holds better my beliefs that God the creator educates us all -including mothers.
I might not be the best addition but I like it then and I unfortunately didn't get enough feed-back neither from Gee nor from Beau. Does that mean they didn't like it ? I wonder !!

Any way , just few clarifications

E

Rula, whether or not the audience is metaphoric, if you want to immerse me in the poem, I need to see it from the point of view of the people it is addressed to. That is why I gave my perspective for each instance. I can't be drawn in without that connection.

Thanks

Scott

Rula

Thanks again for your thoughts. I do understand your point.If I had the choice I would like to assign my poem to be re-written by you, but it's up to Stan of course.

E

If the poem is not assigned to me, I would be more than happy after the workshop to offer you my perspective.

Scott

weirdelf

I get carried away when the subject of religion comes up.

People are entitled to their beliefs, as long as they don't proselytise or start wars.

S

This workshop has to do with poetry, not religious differences. ALL content in this shop should be addressed as to poetic quality only. ................stan

S

Content IS a valid thing to critique. But until one can Prove whether or not somebody's beliefs are untrue then it's probably best to not claim such.Than you for editing the previous comments.............stan

S

perhaps when something can't be proved or disproved it is best to say one Believes it to be untrue, not categorically State it's lack of veracity. Your "faith " that all religion is false is no different than somebody else's faith that it isn't. If you care to carry on with this discussion of religion vs. athesism perhaps a blog would be a better place than doing so here..............stan

weirdelf

Content is valid in critique. Whether you believe in the content or not, content can alienate readers.

The thread became emotional because I criticised religious content. however my objection is valid.

themoonman

I've stayed out of this but am finding it more difficult.
The poem; as far as critique I feel that eightmenout
comes the closest to having a balanced unbiased
view. The poem needs work to generate the feeling
to its readers, the problem is the content excites
emotional responses and that truly isn't a bad thing.

Critique of content is valid, when someone states
categorically in a poem that any belief system or god
is the only truth, I truly can't see any problem with others
stating that it isn't. While there should be a certain amount
of respect shown between us here as poets and fellow
human beings, we will never agree on everything.

Rula, your poem is successful in that it has excited
conversation ... thank you for posting !!!

Richard

Rula

Thanks for your positive interaction. I much appreciate it.

weirdelf

Religion is ignorance, stupidity, divisiveness, superstition and just plain dumb.

S

I thought that was too good to be true lol. But NOW lets not berate others' beliefs any further in this workshop...........stan