Hold back the moon from earth
and soon the sky will fall
all will be dark and cold
upon the winds of change
The tides will flood the land
That once a world did love
No more to breathe the air
release the sun it too has died
A brief yet painful solemn death
Last Few Words: Once again I will attempt a Trimeter as suggested I know I am behind the rest but I cannot go to next phase until I've grasped the first one Chrys
Style/Type: Structured: Western
Review Request Intensity: I want the raw truth, feel free to knock me on my back
Editing Stage: Editing - rough draft
Comments
Dear Chrys
I am going to attempt to parse it out, so hang in there with me?
Hold back the moon from earth
and soon the sky will fall
all will be dark and cold
upon the winds of change
The tides will flood the land
That once a world did love
No more to breathe the air
release the sun it too has died
A brief yet painful solemn death
I may have messed up here on a line or two. Now I'm stuck in bold so please forgive me. teh advanced formating is new to me.
I really liked this piece, especially about the sun and moon.
always, Cat
Cat
Unfortunately the paste feature did not pick up what was highlighted in the original
therefore this is the way I saw it
1-BACK-MOON-EARTH
2-SOON-SKY-FALL
3-WILL-DARK-COLD
2--ON-WINDS-CHANGE
5-TIDES-FLOOD-LAND
6-ONCE-WORLD-LOVE
7MORE-BREATH-AIR
8-LEASE-SUN-DIED
9BRIEF-PAINFUL-DEATH
whether I have stressed the proper words , beats me. gave it my best shot
thanks for trying to help perhaps I am in error here
perhaps if I left off the yet in yet painful
the word pain ful is the stress I'm still confused
I know I am not that dense as to not be able to follow this
Chrys
hmmm
a bit of 2012 glum? everyone seems to be feeling a little apocalyptic lately. the writing is good, but just good, nothing more. it doesn't particularily stand out - try developing a unique way of perception if this is the topic you're interested in. however, keep working, this shows ability but not perfection - as it should be!
TG
welcome to Neopoet, your comment leads to believe you do not understand the ways of poetry and it's meter. to be a good poet you must understand meter. in all my years i have yet to met a perfect poem. Yet if you join a workshop here your understand of poetry will grow, That's why we're here to learn to write poetry from an intelligent vantage point, and how to critic from reading poetry at it's raw level. the hidden secrets.
" Land Of the freed poets"
Eddie
perhaps it might be purely for the meter
but I wasn't even referring to that - I was simply addressing the content of the poem. also, to clarify, I've been using Neopoet for several years now, I just go on hiatus sometimes.
Tired
When was it made part of the rules that Content is fair game for critique
you are the first person that has done so pertaining to my work
oh um
well you've got me on the spot there. I'm not saying I disliked your poetry, by the way, I just meant that it's a common theme right now and therefore hard to be original - and originality is something I value. nor am I trying to attack you, and I'll certainly read through some of your other work. however in regards to the critique of content; it is important to think what makes up a poem and how it relates to it's audience. technique, including meter and metaphor, alliteration and assonance, is one part of how the paint makes the painting beautiful. the other half of the image however is most certainly the content. would the Mona Lisa or Van Gogh's Sunflower's be so popular if weren't for the perfect match of content and technique? of course it is just my opinion, but I think you will agree. get back to me on what you think...
TG
To use a painter and a poet as a comparison is just wrong.
" a painter can paint a bird in flight, but it's the poet who gives it the wind to fly" that is a quote from me.
a comparison with a ballet dancer is more like a poet. we turn words into music while a dancer turns music into a live story.
Eddie
Do you at least see what my
Do you at least see what my metaphor was trying to illustrate?
TG words,
are everything to me in their presentation, your words were how you felt but you added without reading carefully that the poet needed a lot of work as if you were a better poet. you need to realize that this is a workshop poem, and as far as the workshop she is dead on. now I'll tell you something you may not want to hear, I have read some of your poems and I am not at all impress with any I read so far. I do believe you need to join some of the workshops, that is my opinion. if you say you have been here a while then i think you have not read enough poems, because you would have known that China Blue is a good poet. We as poets know that not every poem we right is perfection, it is just a tool to express things. every poem ever written has been written. In reality there is nothing that is new, only in the delivery of it might be new.
I truly hope this helped you understand that Neopoet is a workshop to learn, We have here many published writers. and yet like the rest of us they are here to improve their craft. So if you have reached perfection then why even be here.
My apologies I have gone to far, but i felt it had to be said.
Fast Eddie Esq.
Protector of freedom
...
Tired
Thank you for the read.
This was a specific for an on going workshop
although anyone can comment
sorry you did not care for the write
check my profile when you have the time
Chrys
I parse it, I saw iambic here,
Hold back/ the moon/ from earth
and soon/ the sky/ will fall
all will/ be dark/ and cold
up-on/ the winds/ of change
The tides/ will flood/ the land
That once/ a world/ did love
No more/ to breathe/ the air
Re-lease/ the sun/ it too/ has died
A brief/ yet pain/ful sol/emn death
Line three is not holding to the
da DUM, da DUM, da DUM
read it aloud and you'll here it.
I also see you change the meter on the last two lines. it sounds very good I truly like it alot, again if line three could be worded to keep with the meter it will be perfect at lease that's my opinion
Eddie
Eddie
Thanks dude looks like I almost had it
got stuck on the word painfull mayhaps I should find another word?
what do you think
Chrys
chrys
the painful is fine, it's line three that lost the meter of the top da DUM, da DUM, da DUM.
Eddie
Eddie
hmmm well lets see
got any suggestions I welcome them
I think I'll just write a freeform and break from this meter for a bit
Excellent, Chrys,
actually perfect meter throughout, the last two lines are Tetrameter rather than Trimeter but that works in itself to give strength to the ending.
Don't tell me again this is too hard. You've nailed it!
Jess
Many thanks Jess
I may have nailed it but it was very hard for me
ok I guess I can go on to the next phase which if I am correct was trying to add meter to a poem previously written
not necessarily re-write it with meter,
merely evaluate how meter might have helped in places.
Hi
Sorry for being late. On first reading I also read line 3 to begin with a stress. Maybe this is a line in which this"poetic voice" is needed to maintain meter. Another likely cause is my not knowing what I'm talking about lol........stan
Stan,
don't under sell yourself, you gave someone an explaintion on what we are doing here. I thought it was dead on, oh yeah it was on "Parsing a poem". My opinion is you have it. at lease better than I do.
Eddie
...
Stan
I agree with fast Eddie there , do not underestimate your talents or ability
Eddie
many thanks for your very kind words
All
I feel a can of worms has been opened up here on the subject of content
imp content should not be critiqued to do so is to unfair and unjust to the writers freedoms of speech and expression. why write and post a poem that some one somwhere along the line is going to attack for it's content'
It is our right to express ourselves in our words
If the content is disliked then something on the order of
"I cannot say I agree with your poem, but to each his own and as it is written it is well done" I have been known to leave such comments
Let this be an end to this thread on content
we all write for different purposes , and are at different levels, if your level appears to be higher do not belittle an others work HELP them to try to better themselves instead of saying
it wasn't good , or I hated it
negative comments are know to cause a person to put up a defense
Don't put a writer in that position, if you have something you feel would be of help then share otherwise ignore the poem if it is so distasteful
Two answers to this,
your first contribution should not have been critiqued on content, only music of the words was important.
Second stage where we present a poem that might be open to improvement by meter is open to al aspects of critique, including content.
I once saw a member say "this is so nice you could sell it to Hallmark" She didn't mean to be nasty but it was a damning comment.
wait a minute,
If I write for hall mark I am not a poet? (as he hides all his cards and rolyaties) LMFAO!!
that to me is an interesting statement by who ever said it.
(I do remember hearing this before, a few years back)
Eddie
...
Jess
NO!!!!!!!
content is a persons words Now since when are my words a forum for critique No Jess by saying that you are taking away my freedom to express myself.
That quote you have could have been taken as a compliment as well , because you do not prefer Hallmark writing does not mean it should be called trash
content should not be critiqued
and a workshop is not the place to debate this if there is any debate about it at all
Chys, try this.
Do a Search with keyword content. Everybody does it all the time. it's the flesh on our poetry. Nothing new here.
All I'm saying is feedback is no longer just on the meter, it is on tthe whole poem.
I think the one thing unsaid...
that caught TG because he/she didn't know the workshop is this. We are required to write something mundane that we don't dread to tear it apart for meter's sake. But Crys, I do think content can and should be critiqued. We will always disagree with one another on subjects outside of poetry, but that is no reason we can't discuss whether the perspective is artfully and concisely presented.
wesley
I can't believe I created an argument this long
what a kerfuffle!
look, whether or not you posted this just for the sake of it's meter, what I (and the rest of Neopoet) will read is quite likely something more than that. one's posting on a poetry site opens your poem up for critique, and it is quite likely that that might be negative - you have to prepare yourself for that, and if you aren't willing to accept it maturely, you probably shouldn't have posted the poem in the first place. for example, Eduardo Cruz critiqued: "I have read some of your poems and I am not at all impress with any I read so far" of my own poetry - but that is more than okay! in all honesty, I don't expect everyone to appreciate what my poetry is trying to articulate - we all have different tastes in everything, and like Eduardo dissaproves and sees no talent or skill in my works, I see no skill in having unoriginal content, regardless of how spot-on the metering is. yes this is a workshop, and you, China Blue, submitted this thinking you would get critiqued for meter - well guess what, it's your lucky day and I've given quite a bit more than that; take it on and feel grateful that people have the courage to say something negative. because sometimes that's much harder to say then, 'oh this is lovely', and often will lead you, China Blue, to becoming a better poet. however, if you're not here to become a better poet, then I can fully understand why you didn't appreciate such a 'harsh' critique.
regards,
tired_goat
TG
How dare you tell me not to post a poem no matter how well put your wording is
I strongly advise you to READ Stan's comment below
I have taken negative comments now my suggestion to you is stay the out of my business
I don't care who you are or how long you have been here NO one tells me what I can and cannot or should or should not post who do you think you are
I am not a child so for god sakes don't treat me like one on a workshop submission true any one could have commented on it
but know why it was posted in the first place
I do not take kindly to being told what to do or how I should write by someone that cannot identify themselves and does not know facts before they speak
you interjected your opinion
you're taking so much offense to all of this
yeesh. I didn't mean it like that. I never have been telling you what to do, nor suggested I'm better than you or whatever. I know this is a workshop, I've admitted that before; all I'm suggesting is that you pay attention to the subject matter of your poetry and how you use words to interpret it - I didn't even suggest that you were totally unoriginal, or anything similar; all I said was to be wary of writing about common topics, because it means you have a large bank of previous poems and poets to be compared to.
as far as identifying myself goes, my name is Liam Dewey Frost, I'm 18 from Melbourne, Australia. I've been writing poetry for 6 years; I'm highly experienced for my age in performance poetry, having headlined open mics, and won spoken competitions. I'm not perfect, I'm looking to be published, trying to improve my poetry and push my own writing ability as far as I can. I've been with Neopoet for several years, on the previous site as Goatman, and run a poetry blog (http://poeji.tumblr.com). I'm also currently building a literary and visual art journal, which you are more than welcome to submit to.
now if you don't mind, I would have rather to introduce myself in a more polite, however it seems *some* people would rather flame war it out of my body. I'm going to write, instead of replying to comments that blew out a few words dramatically into something far more important than they actually were. I suggest, not force or tell you to, you all do the same.
Wesley
Perhaps we are not using the same definition of "content"
to me content is the body of the poem expressed in the authors words and in their express opinion of a subject
to critique this is holding back the author the freedom to use their ideas and words
and yes I am sure no two people can agree on something that is their opinion
artfully presented ok but no one should say that a poem is not good because the reader did not like the subject matter should they
I feel then if a member wants to read a workshop poem they should then read the syllabus for that workshop to understand what is going on
I've always tried to stay away from workshop poem for that very reason, being I do not want to interfere with the progression of the workshop. If I comment on one it is because I am taking part in it.
LOL I do not think you and I will ever see eye to eye on anything but hey that is alright too doesn't mean we can't talk
Ah, but you see... we do agree.
A poet will write, must write what is in their heart and on their mind. To develop debate over a particular subject is and will likely remain the poet's purview. At a poetry website in a common posting it makes little sense to debate the subject beyond a few cursory thoughts as we are here to improve the "poetry". The way the subject has been framed poetically is a subject required by us to debate. In a workshop such as this one that concentrates exclusively on one aspect of poetry, discussing the "content" simply takes up space that is needed to discuss the single aspect... in this case "meter".
Yes, content should be discussed. Not for the perspective of the poet per se, but "how" it is presented.
In this workshop, it is too low on the menu to be worth talking about.
In my smaller poems I write about a lot of subjects that are essentially fiction for me. I'm studying a form and whatever poem wants to be written in the process is welcome. Therefore, many of them are perspectives that I don't hold to be true, but I wanted to experiment with presentation.
In my epic, Çaço, Man of the Morning Star, I want the content to be judged as well as the poetry. The point is to write an expansive story that just happens to be in verse, but you'll never see me posting it in a workshop (even if I could arrange a small enough piece of it to fit).
So I think we agree quite comfortably.
wesley
Wesley
LOL and this is what makes different people interesting to speak with. A good hearty debate will never change a persons feelings about any subject will it . Good debating with you
hello TG
Workshop poems are submitted for specific reasons. In this particular shop the emphasis is on meter, not content, not rhyme or even making sense. Now it is true that any poem posted is open to all critique but at the same time a poem posted for purposes of a workshop should not be judged until the shop syllabus has been read. Only then can the poet's intent and thereby content by fully understood. Example :
blah Blah blah Blah blah Blah blah Blah......not too much for content, but for shop purposes perfect iambic tetrameter.
So a person who is wise would consider the shop intent before criting a poem too harshly for content lol.....stan
Stan,
I agree, for the workshop it is important to read the syllabus before opening ones pie hole.
Stan, that was what I was trying to get Mr. perfect to understand, but I failed. maybe he didn't get the content of my comment. ROFLMFAO!!
Eddie
...
Stan
Thank you
Wesley and Jess
I guess we agree to disagreeyes lol
Chrys
Don't you give up on this one
the workshop is hard
as it stretches things out of proportion as
some of the words you have to use are sometimes
not the ones we would normally just sit and write
You take care and well done for this Workshop
I missed it on purpose as I find them hard and I am damned Lazy, Yours as always Ian.T.
Any more problems and I'll send Sparrow in La La
Ian
for the most part this section of the workshop has been met. Thanks much for the encouragement and the smile your message gave me
Chrys
Question
just checking on something
Chrys and TG
The revised community guidelines Do Not prohibit critique on content. However the stringing out of this argument in a workshop environment is contrary to everybody's best interests. In my personal opinion the fault is equal on both sides. Tg, you could have nipped it by simply leaving the original comment you made and then moving on. Chrys, you apparently have misunderstood the intent of what TG said. What this really boils down to is the question of whether workshop poems should be able to be commented on by non workshop members. Realize that if it were to become policy that only shop memberscould comment on shop poems, many very insightful commentaries would be unrealized. Please realize this is my personal opinion only and not to be taken as any type official communication............stan
Well put Stan, I would only add
mea culpa also.
And perhaps it could be clearer when poems are posted as part of workshops. It says so, but only in small print.
Perhaps it could be in larger print with a request to read the syllabus next to the link to it. Could the AEC have a look at this?
hi Jess
in my opinion a writer should always state in the title that a poem is for a workshop and which one thusly :
THIS IS JUST ANOTHER POEM (bored with life workshop). That might go a long way in allaying such squabbles.....stan
Read the Guidelines Lonnie
The guidelines have NEVER stated that content is not subject to critique.
http://new.neopoet.com/community-guidelines
Also do a search using the keyword 'content'- you'll find that virtually all feedback refers to the content.
With all due respect means fuck you, and you know it
Well you are totally fucking wrong. Read the Guidelines, they were put together by the Trustees and consecutive AECs. Neopoet has never proscribed comment on content. I don't believe myself correct on this, I know it. And it is documented. Read it.
http://new.neopoet.com/community-guidelines
Damn,
What a fucking can of worms, it all start with the way TG left his comment, which said that Blue suck and had a long way to go befoer perfection. which to me is a fuck-up thing to say about any
bodies baby. constructive critic is one thing but to say in a derogotory way to me is fucked up.Let me say that Jess and Wes say there comment strongly, but I don't read Ill intent or content which ever you prefer in their statements. I myself did not like the way TG presente is comment, I am one who can take a lot, but when I read his comment even though it wasn't about me I was offened by the way he stated it. so I put in my two cents follow the threat and you will see I think that i kind of made it worst. I just did not like the way he spoke to blue I consider her a long time internet friend. so I say to hell with bad comments that are not helpful but instead hurtful. That's my opinion and my right. If I hear anyone offending someone here who I respect I will always put in my to cents. fre speech is one thing. I thing we all knoweach other for a long time why be nasty. I consider everyone here as intellgent poeple.
That's my opinion on all this shit. I do agree with Stans and Jess last statement. I feel if you want to make a critic in a workshop then join so you can understand what's going on. or shut your pie hole
Shit I am sorry I got piss off. I apologize to all. forgive my grammar but I'm not going back to correct it now
deep end Eddie and still falling
hello
To put an end to this for at least a bit, let's all read the revised guidelines. I have done so. In no place does it state comment on content is prohibited. As far as the previous guidelines, if my memory is correct they also did not prohibit critique of content but did caution that care should be taken when doing so. So let's do this shop stream a favor and let this particular dog lie a few days and get back to writing and metering for at least a few days......stan PS I will post a forum topic so that this discussion can continue off the shop line
Stan
ok