brittle light

Mar 07, 2013

This poem is part of the workshop:

Show And Tell: Intensive Critique Workshop

(Read More...)

Leaders: BlueDemon77and weirdelf

Moderators: weirdelf, beauregard

Description: Each participant will submit one poem they feel needs work, one they are having trouble perfecting, or feel is under-appreciated. One other participant will be assigned to give it a vigorous critique at every level. Some of the areas or topics of the critique would include
- form, rhyme, assonance, consonance, meter, poetic technique (metaphor, alliteration, ect.) and how effective it is to the readers understanding of the work. Ultimately the critic should quantify the poem, including how well it works and how it relates to the content
- content, what the content is, whether it is significant, meaningful, true. What is revealed by exposition and in -subtext. Do you agree with it the writers opinion as you see it? Why?
- style, is the poem well crafted?, is there a strong lexis? Interesting and creative use of language?
- imagery, what imagery is used, what kinds, how effective is it?
-emotional content, what are the feelings evoked? Are they "universal'? Are they genuine or masked by sentiment?
- epiphany, does the poem change you? Have a significant impact on your way of seeing the world? If not does it matter? What does it give you?
- redemption, does the poem offer an insight into the human condition? The betterment of the species? Political understanding? Does it need to?

Subjective impressions are encouraged. You’ll give the poem a thorough working over.

Then other participants will critique the critique itself.

Finally the original poet has a right of reply and can submit a revised version.

Objectives: To hone our skills in critique to enhance our undertanding of poetry and be better able to give fellow poets menaingful feedback to help improve their craft.

Please remember to tick “Show And Tell- Intensive critique” in the workshop box on the poem submission page and include “(Shark Pool Show and Tell)” after the title of your poem.

We’ll open with a discussion of critique.

This will be challenging for both those critiquing and those being critiqued. Complete honesty is the best approach. This is a unique opportunity to have group attention and focused critique to a piece or pieces of your choosing (we can always begin anew if the group is interested in doing so). This workshop can help our critical abilities as well as our ability as poets. Leave the kid gloves at home though, this is Shark Pool. While we will have a policy of 'across the board' respect, the key to the success of the workshop is honesty in the critiques.

Please join us!

Ron and Jess

Level of expertise: Open to all

This workshop is closed.

Gated (shark pool show and tell)

nice little town you've got here

...too fucking nice!

something's off
hinky
wrong

a league of live large liars,
deep under glossy lawyered cover-ups,
splashing white picket defences
with thick slick ivy veiling elocution

chambers of societies,
(those good ol' boys of legend),
siccing macho maddened
barrel bottom mercenaries
on any, and all, interlopers
of their Private America

a dreamtown
van winkled
refusing to come of age

"open the gates, mother fuckers"

About This Poem

Review Request Intensity: I want the raw truth, feel free to knock me on my back

Editing Stage: Editing - polished draft

About the Author

Region, Country: upstate New York USA, USA

Comments

thank you, beau

I hope you get the assignment

Hi Guys

I was informed by Jess via PM that I was to critique Rula's poem.......................stan PS I'm sure Beau would be much better at critiquing free verse than I am

critique of Beau critique

I believe that Beau critique to Al's is honest and clear.
Beau's honesty shows when she pointed out the obscurity of some expressions and asked him
to reconsider those expressions without spoiling the sense of its thought-provoking which is a very good point to keep the writer's style.
One more thing is good about Beau's which not everyone would do is googling some names or places to know about or how they relate to the piece. I would suggest instead that the writer adds "author's footnotes" if he cares that a larger number would read his work.

MY CRITIQUE OF THE POEM

Hello.

I've kept this opened since it was posted, and after multiple reads, here's what I have:

On first look, one is immediately attacked by free verse. The first line already sets it in motion, and one can feel the ironic, sarcastic undertones.

I particularly like the content, which seems to rant intelligently against the crooked establishment. I found the alliteration he used in lines 6,12 and 13 interesting. They didn't look forced, and went naturally with the flow of the poem.

One other thing that makes this even more fun was the contrast between the nice little town and the large liars and secret societies.

But it's not all praise I have for your poem: I find the last line off. It looks like a sorry excuse to sign off and swear. I'm sure the poet got carried away.

Calling the town a dreamtown doesn't fit the theme, after leaving the irony behind. I have no suggestion for this.

Here's what happens when I

Here's what happens when I keep the tab opened for days without refreshing it!!

Thanks Beau

For having a go at mine. I planned long paragraphs, but chose to be more concise. The long critique didn't seem to be favoured any longer. Also, typing on my phone isn't the most convenient. :D

To answer the last question, I didn't want more after the last line. I felt it wasn't necessary. A bit overdone. an equally emotive word would have, in my opinion, served the purpose better.

A bit on your critique: I like the way you looked at his poem, and saw some of the same things I did. What I failed to mention, but you did, was that it was very political. How the word escaped me, I don't know.

I feel like

I am getting lost in this workshop. It seems that far too many of the members are too familiar with one another and that the critiques are too personal for a newbie to engage.

the language may be intimate but the language of poetry

to a newbie or an oldie is still Poetry..
and working under the hood is what this critque stuff is about..
Like dropping in on the fifties in the coffee shops to those old
poets who were newbies then....That would have been something
It would have been a bit hard to get into at first but after awhile
you could tell whats what... They wrote a lot of letters too to
each other to critique also... I dont and havent found poets
exclusive..intimidating in the beginning maybe..ha ha ha
Kathleen Brindsley whom I met and befriended years ago
was very real and warm and creative!!

Diving in

I am now diving in, feet first obviously, because my foot is in my mouth.

Beau does an excellent job of providing a critique on the content, but I feel more remarks could have been added to aid the writer. How about the title? How about the punctuation? Flow? I feel the critique could have been better.

I did not have a problem with the imagery. I believe the imagery was very good and consistent throughout.

The poem itself is solid. The critique good. But this website is about becoming a better poet. As I am finding, being a better poet is not always about content. A solid poem deserves a solid critique or better for growth, not just good. When a poet says "knock me on my back" then those that can, should.

I have not offered more here because I simply can't. But Beau can. She has reviewed a number of my works and been invaluable. It may just be me always wanting more, but I believe Beau can offer it. A critique can and should be critical, but not personal. Being personal and "hurting" an ego are two very different beasts.

Scott

P.S. This is an invitation to any and all of you to knock me on my "ass". I know I am not a great poet. If I thought that, I would not be here. But I want to be and believe that I can learn anything. Please, knock me down.

critiquing the critic

Well Beau you about covered everything. But I wonder why you didn't mention the quotation marks on the last line. Who is he quoting. Do the marks help or hurt? Also the spacing of stanzas. I think he did very well using the spacing to emphasize each portion of the poem. How about you? Now I'll duck behind this here wall before the stones start flying lol..................stan

I read a quote once...

... and have (tragically) forgotten who said it, so I must paraphrase and not credit.

"When a poem is being read it is not the poet that is being judged, but the reader."

Understanding Beau's comment about clarity, I yet feel a poet must never abandon their personality (vocabulary, commentary) for the sake of clarity unless they have allowed the poem to become so obtuse that no one will give it the time of day. It is a line to be balanced between how the poet desires to communicate and making the poem accessible to the poet's chosen audience.
In this case I must agree with Beau's reservations. The language was a bit difficult for me, but not so much that I could not follow its intent.
Beau delicately addressed what she thought troublesome without berating the poem itself. In other words, she gave what we are only able to give- her personal opinion... and did it diplomatically.

Notes on Al's poem

It strikes me as being about a highly exclusive area being inundated with 'outsiders'. This is merely the effect of putting one plus one to equal two. What confuses me is how there seems to be two narrators and you're only aware which one is speaking due to the prior knowledge of what the character says (you have the person who wants to conserve his environment, then the person who wants in). I didn't have a problem with that. What bothered me is what the point is ultimately to be. I see an old medieval sign pointing many directions.

Ron

This workshop is now ended.

Please give me feedback, either on the workshop thread
http://www.neopoet.com/workshop/show-and-tell-intensive-critique-worksh…
or by PM, as to how you benefited from the workshop, criticisms and ways future workshops could be improved,