The Minnow’s Shop (Beginner’s Workshop)

I will comment
if I know
only freestyles I blow
you all know
still you honour me
as a small poet of Neo
I still be
but time permitting
and I am able
will I walk into your poetic stable

Would keep my eyes and mind

Would keep my eyes and mind open as a learning experience.

Regards,

Hi Wes

Since beginners are allowed I'd like in.......stan

Welcome Stan.

It's always nice to review.

I hope you are preparing for The Ballade workshop following this one.
In fact I hope everyone comes to the incredibly difficult poetic form workshop.

In the meantime, the basics.
This workshop will be run on a semi regular basis to lend a hand to those who come looking for an understanding of the rudiments of poetry.

I'll probably start early, so I hope everyone is lined up and ready to go. Sorry about starting early: it's a curse. I get excited and can't wait.

I am

thrilled too
Welcome everyone and thank you sir for the time you're offering to give this workshop.
I will try to be a studious participant and moderator.

You have asked for 6 entries but that will have to be ignored as there is going to be at least 10 in this workshop.
Mind you the ones that are well versed in poetry can limit their way of participating, what say you????
Yours, Ian..

I have to agree with stan

once you add the newcomers, there's no way you leave it at 6 unless you don't want them in the ws.

Alid

I'm also here! not sure what

I'm also here! not sure what to do next though!

Day bf my birthday

I'm taking brain training to help my backwardness. Hopefully my poetry writing will be better. I'm not a beginner but feel like one after every bad episode. Please include me.

Barbara

It is now your Birthday.
Have a great day and let the others spoil you,
All our unconditional love,
Ian, Anne, and the Children..xxxxxx

thanks Ian

My birthday is on the 17 the day after this was start lol.

Hi Carolina girl

Happy 29th...........stan

Barbara

happy birthday, my friend.

Alid

Thanks

Welcome all

The number of the participants has been extended. We have room for all who wish to join. Please don't hesitate.

I would never turn anyone away at the door.

(I think that's a metaphor... I'm working on them).
Joan, don't worry... you will be led by the hand as will everyone else (including, on occasion, me).

It is three days and I will begin.
(Although, I'm notorious for starting early, so keep a watchful eye for the first conversation I present).

Thanks

I found a new app with a program that trains the brain in a variety of areas. My grammar has been greatly effected over the years; I'm relearning, but retaining is a challenge.

There are five activities; writing, listening, speaking, reading and math. I'm advanced in one and intermediate in the other four. Guess which one.
How is my grammar? I'm trying to retain syntax.

I found but one mistake.

In the last line it should be "maintain" not "retained". Your tense went from present throughout the comment and then switched to past tense. "Retain" would work also.
It's perfect. I'm very impressed. I can see the proofreading in this.

Thanks Wesley

I'm glad it's just one. Sad to say, I always proofread until I'm exhausted. Recognizing grammar errors is my biggest challenge. I can only keep it momentarily then its gone. I can't retain like I use to. I feel retarded lol.

I'm glad I'm here getting aid to maintain my skill.

this is for beginners you say....

but now I am
on my beginning to end decline
what shall I do
do say
pack up
and go right away??

Oh no you don't.

You stay right where you are and participate. It will be more challenging than you think.

aye aye sir

sir aye aye

Are we starting the discussion now?

If so since you're the leader it would be nice to have a topic.Is it how a poem first comes to be?....

Since you ask, I will begin early.

Rhythm vs. Meter.

What is rhythm?

Rhythm is the flow of the poem. How it reads, whether smooth and moving from one word to the next with ease or choppy, clumsy and ugly.
Rhythm is what you get when you write a poem… good or bad.

Meter DESCRIBES what the rhythm is. With an understanding of meter we can guarantee our poem moves smoothly and identify difficulties in the work. Meaning, what works and what doesn’t and (most importantly):

Why!

Let’s begin at the beginning.

A line of poetry is called a “verse”.
Each verse is divided into poetic “feet”. There are a multitude of poetic foot styles. We will discuss the two most common: the “iamb” and the “trochee”.

An iamb is a two syllable unit. It is an accented (or stressed) syllable preceded by an unstressed syllable.
An example would be “beyond”. The “be” is unstressed while “yond” is stressed.
We might write it like this: “be - YOND”. This is known as scansion (or parsing).

Scansion is how we break a poem down into its component parts and will be used throughout the workshop.

Some more examples of what we would call “iamb”:

“aloof” (scanned as a / LOOF)
“reject” (re / JECT)
“respect (re / SPECT)

All of these words begin with an unstressed syllable followed by a stressed syllable. This is “Iamb”.

The number of these poetic feet in a given verse will determine the “meter” of the verse.
Seventy percent of verse in English poetry is “pentameter” which means there are five feet in the verse.
E.G. “When I have fears that I may cease to be…” (Keats). This verse is written in iambic pentameter.
I would scan it thus: “When I / have FEARS / that I / may CEASE / to BE”.
We can write in shorter and longer lengths of verse such as “monometer” which is one iamb.

E.G. Again… “beyond”

Dimeter: two iambs “they RAN / a-WAY”
Trimeter: three iambs “i WATCHED / a SIN- / king STAR (note how the division of an iamb actually happens in the middle of a word).
Tetrameter: four iambs “The CROWS / have FALL- / en SI- / lent NOW”
Pentameter: five iambs “When I have fears that I may cease to be…”

Lets have as our first assignment something simple. Create a small list of iambic words such as I have done.
Then we’ll talk about it.

my try

Monometer : de-CIDE
Dimeter: two iambs “they DANCE / a-GAIN”
Trimeter: three iambs “she SANG / a JOY- /ful SONG
Tetrameter: four iambs “be YOU / the LIGHT/ of HOPE / to THEM”
Pentameter: five iambs “who KNOWS/ what FATE/ has SPUN/ for US/ to-NIGHT?

Alid

you have mastery alidsz

now send me a message
for my bits
I don't seem to know
I am bic!

what is it

very nice but

When I have fears that I may cease to be
what if i say

I have no fears that I may not cease to be

what happens to the iambs and pentameters have i made any sense at al

When I have fears that I may cease to be
I have no fears that I may not cease to be

SOS

kindly break it for me...

hmm, loved

Let me show you
I Have/ no FEARS/ that I/ may NOT/ CEASE to be
(iambs)/(iambs)/(iambs)/(iambs)/(dactyl)
Dactyl's word format is (stressed, unstressed, unstressed) in a foot

one foot of iambic sounds like this
da-DUM.
(unstressed, stressed)

Alid

loved

try again.

Alid

Read this!

People have a tendency to skim long posts but Wesley has posted here much of what you will need to express yourself fully as a poet.
Take the time. Read all of Wesley's post carefully.

The biggest ever problem I have had teaching meter

is those below the Mason/Dixon line. They hate to admit it but it is heavily influenced by French, which uses long/short vowels for meter instead of stress.

Not to mention

Those Australians and Their accents lol

the standard reply from anyone

of any nationality "what accent? We don't have an accent, everyone else does" teehee,
but what I said about the French influence on meter is supported by poetry theory.

here in the south

Our accents are influence heavily by the French, Scotts and Irish. Then you add a bit of California from when I was young and it's a wonder anybody can understand me lol........stan

OK.

Retreat, Repeat, preheat,walking, (almost any 2 syllable words that end in ing) Don't want to hog conversation so I'll stop now.
Rhythm can be compared to a series of waves with the same height and meter can be compared to the length between each crest............stan

That's a good description.

I have always pronounced "walking" as "WA-lking". As trochee.

You snagged them all Alid.

A perfect example of exercise number two, but let's let everyone have a chance to make their "iamb" list. I want to be sure everyone knows what an iamb is before we move on.
So hurry up everyone and give me a quick list just to show off.

I'm trying to ease back in,

do you mind if I comment here now and then?
Nah, fuck it. I will join the workshop if you will have me.
It is a very important one.

You're in.

Welcome your participation.

a list of iambic

beFORE
deVOTE
disCLAIM
preTEND
inSPECT
deLETE
enHANCE
beCAUSE
beLIEVE
deCLINE

monometer: beHIND

monometer: beHIND
dimeter: beHIND|| the REALMS||
trimeter: beHIND|| the REALMS|| of DREAMS||
tetrameter: beHIND || the REALM || of DREAMS|| a WORLD ||
Pentameter: beHIND || the REALM || of DREAMS|| a WORLD || exSISTS||

Very cute.

and of course... correct.

Okay, we've had several participants go ahead with ex. two,

so let's move on to it.
First Rula, the words you're looking for are "dimeter" and "trimeter".

Dimeter is a two foot verse. Meaning, there will be two poetic feet in the line. In this case we are chiefly using iamb, so stick to it. We'll experiment with Trochee tomorrow.
Trimeter is a three foot verse and so on as was explained earlier.

Write a single verse in all the "meters" (monometer to pentameter). You should have five and only five verses in the exercise.

It's time for questions if you have them.

miniSKIRT- iambic mono meter

raj

that's not exactly right. listen to the sound. There's 3 vowel sound.
MI- ni skirt
'stressed, unstressed, unstressed'
This is the not iambic, its dactyl.
iambic one foot is
'unstressed, stressed' (2 vowel sound)

for e,g-
de-NY
re-SIDES
re-VIVE

It does not mean one word with 2 sounds, as long as it follows the iambic sound rule, it is iambic. Here's a few eg of iambic monometer or one foot with two words-

'i KNOW..'
'he CRIED'
'to SING..'
'just WHEN'
'be STRONG'

Come and try again. You can do it!

Alid

Right on the money Alid.

Extraordinarily well explained. What do you need me for?

I know that I am no good when

I know that I am no good when it comes to these meters and syllables...and to add to my woes the stressed and unstressed...so was a bit circumspect while giving it a try...sorry for pointing the error...i wont be into this...i shouldn't have been..yet thought of giving it one more try..

all of you guys have a great time in the WS...

raj

I know you can do it. All you need to do is to check the dictionary for the words that you doubt. Some dictionaries write the stressed syllable in bold or put a stress (a small sign above the stressed syllable) like in the word "sorry", it's two syllables [sor-ee]. The stress is on the first part, so you can see it like
[ 'sor-ree]
Does that make any sense?

Thanks Rula for your

Thanks Rula for your encouragement...however I am still reeling from the stress of never being able to get these right in spite of sincere attempts ...

Regards,

raj

Why don't you use a dictionary to aid you. Since we are not native of the language, sometimes we got mixed up with the stress and unstressed word. I find that a dictionary could help sort it out. I used the online dictionary to help me out.

Alid

I had tried a dictionary Alid

I had tried a dictionary Alid during the Sonnet WS but realized it doesn't help with every word w.r.t. syllable count. Thanks for your suggestion. Besides I do not want to get back into the same situation like Sonnet WS where my confidence took a lot of beating ...

Regards.

I am sorry to say

that you're totally mistaken raj. You wrote some awesome sonnets. One can't master it from one time or two. Meter needs a lot of practice.

BTW Raj

I'm not saying this to appease you. I am telling the truth.

Raj, I'm no expert

but really, its okay to make mistakes when you're learning. My first sonnet doesn't come out perfect in the first draft, it took rula and judy to help me out before it becomes good. Don't be too hard on yourself. The mentors can teach you only if you continue to try to rectify whatever mistakes you've made. If you got stuck, ask help from wes and rula or take a rest and come back later when you're refreshed. Browse thru the internet for examples and you can even used the examples of iambic words that have been given by others to help you out. I know you are a good poet and you can do it if you want to. Look at it this way, in your verses, maybe not all of the monometer is not iambic. That leaves only the wrong ones that you must change, not the whole verse of it..

Alid

I amb's

revert
invert
invest
insist
undo
inset
offend
offer
super
supper
sojourn- for loved
There are so many and some I may get wrong but will no doubt be told of them..

A tiny unsure dullish un needed poem
I find, in completing a goodly prose
Insecure words in line unfurl today..

This is so hard to talk this way I shall retire to my cave
Take care all, Yours, Ian..

Not quite.

These three are trochee. (stressed syllable followed by an unstressed)

offer (OF-fer)
super (SU-per)
supper (SUP-per)
Don't stop now.

Im here after a crazy week!!

Im here after a crazy week!!
Iambic words: inSIDE, beYOND, aBOVE, withOUT, inSTEAD
monometer: inSIDE
dimeter: inSIDE / this WORLD
trimeter: inSIDE / thisWORLD / of TWISTED
tetrameter: inSIDE / this WORLD / of TWISTED / DREAMS
pentameter: inSIDE / this WORLD / of TWISTED / DREAMS / i FOUND....

its a start!!!

Iambic Pentameter it is

TWISTed is two syllables though

inSIDE || this WORLD || of TWIST|| ed DREAMS|| i FOUND||

Well done Joan!!

Who's next?

Workshop bits

Monometer:- Unsure
Dimeter:- Unsure I find
Trimester:- Unsure I find a way
Tetrameter:- Unsure I find a way inside
Pentameter:- Unsure I find a way inside my mind.

Be kind to me I is learning, love you all, which is a bribe, Yours Ian..

I'm here, iamb

My retention is effected; I must focus only on one thing before I lose everything.
My iamb list.
Abroad
Decide
Devise
Divide
Subside
Provide
Decry
Collide
Rawhide
Countless
Decry
Decried
Decries

Did I get them? I'm also concentrating on grammar in this ws; it is why I'm talking more than necessary. Cheers

Barbara

Apart from the rest, I'm not sure about ''retired'' There's 3 vowel sound.
''re-TI-RED''
unstressed, stressed, stressed.
Not sure what to call it. hmmm

Wes, a little help here?

Alid

Thanks Alid

Retired, noted
I'll remove it. Glad the rest are iamb. Yass

Iambic Pentameter

Divide is to concur among brain cells
Cancer collides; loved ones taken away
Many decried the fight to beat the odds
Countless survived the harsh treatments allowed.

I'm apologizing in advance, if I'm teaching rather than learning or taking liberties to run this workshop. It's not my intent; I'm trying to get this and retain for a good poem. I can't say how much I'll remember after this workshop, I hope to remember three things; rhythm, iambic, and pentameter. Lol

Not at all Barbara.

Retired was dealt with and I won't critique the poem as that is extra. You've fulfilled your assignments and it's time to move on.

Thanks Wesley

I was attempting pentameter with the iambic words in the poem. Apparently, I got the iambic words right and all the lines are pentameter.
Ready too move on.

Trochee.

Trochee is the opposite of Iamb.
It is a stressed (or accented) syllable followed by an unstressed syllable.

Let's demonstrate the same exercise as "iamb", but use "trochee" instead.

Werewolf's / often / have to / barf their / catch up.

my try for trochee

Monometer :
REA-ding,
OU-ting,
KIN-ship

Dimeter: two feet “STORM, the/ GATES, men!
Trimeter: three feet “ON-ly/ BRAVE men/ STAYS here.
Tetrameter: four feet “TALK to / ME, you/ FOOL, i'm/ RIGHT here.
Pentameter: five feet “STRIKE him / DEAD, but/ MAKE sure / NONE will/ SEE you.

This is harder. So how do I do?

Alid

Alid,

it is excellent. No wonder I want you to moderate some workshops. You have it figured out.

khalid

Dimeter: two [feet]
Trimeter : three [feet]...etc.

I know it's only a typo. Just thought others won't be confused with the terminology.

Shukran, Rula

I didn't notice the mistake.

Alid

hi there

Ian took away the only one i knew
sojourn

and now

reborn
forlorn
belong
come along
foregone
re-storm
reform
rejoin
co join
better
butter
clutter
strutter
fitter
cleaner
larger
oftner

the basic i was taught was based on vowels
each iambic
must have a vowel
like my '''only baby''

''so journ''

so has an o
and
journ has another o plus u.... it should do

loved

Apart from the rest, 'come along' is not quite right, There's 3 vowel sounds.
come a-long
unstressed, unstressed, stressed.

iambic one feet or monometer has just 2 vowel sounds which is unstressed, stressed
simply 'a-LONG'' or along would be correct.

only baby are not iambic. Its the opposite of iambic known as trochee.
One foot of trochee has 2 vowel sounds but the rule is reversed as in stressed, unstressed.

Let me show you

ON-ly/ BA-by
stressed, unstressed/ stressed, unstressed
This is trochee dimeter, a verse with 2 trochee feet.

Alid

Me trochee

It's a bit challenging to get the sound with words like I did with iamb.
Opposite of iamb; demand
Trochee; often, have to
My trochee words
No how
Can do
Can not
Don't want
Need to
Backwards
Twisted
Somehow
Campers
Bad girls
Koolaid
Cupcakes
Standby
County
Blunder
Bounty
Hunter
How do these work?

Barbara

un-DO is iambic
HALF-BAKED (now I've checked the online dictioary and they are all streesed words. not sure what to call it.

Alid

The word you are looking for is...

"spondee", two accented syllables in a row. The opposite of pyrrhic, which is two unaccented syllables. They are very uncommon as generally speaking when writing a spondee or (particularly) a pyrrhic foot one or the other syllable usually accents itself.
I believe "half baked" is a true spondee, but only as it is presented by itself. In a verse it would accent differently of course.

Thanks Alid and Wesley

One iambic and one spondee well noted.

Trochee and pentameter?

Some times people over fifty just can't
Focus like they used to when were younger
Brain cell dies out can not renew, revive
Inside silver, golden, aging castles.

I'm not sure about the grammar on 'lifestyle'

Are there words in here that's not trochee or lines not pentameter?

The first two lines are excellent...

then your meter falls apart in the last two.

"Brain cells (dying) out can not renew themselves" (this makes the line "heptameter" which is six feet. Also, "themselves" is an iamb.
Now you fix the last one. Don't forget to read it out loud to yourself in a natural way. You should notice the differences.

Ok thanks

I appreciate the suggestion

trochee

trochee
Cursed
Crossing
Pattern
Patter
Pattern
Dishy
Action
Bearing
Cranky
Even
Flexile
Goblin
Damn now I have to sort them all out:-
Cursed
Cursed pattern
Cursed pattern action
Cursed pattern action never
Cursed pattern action never flexile

Have great day out there my love to you all,
Yours Ian

Good examples.

Many trochee, but much of iamb also. Trochee must accent the first syllable and if some of these were "scanned" over we would find something of a mix of the two.
Also, Iamb and Trochee are both two syllable units. Some of the list words have three.
Look over your lists again and see if you note what I'm talking about. The iamb list must be only iamb and the trochee only trochee each with two syllables only.

Before we try to write the last exercise we will talk about rhyme schemes next session.

Okay boss

Who are you referring too when you say some are mixed. Is it both me and ian? If me which are so I can fix it. I'm easily confused lol

In your case Barbara,

only "half baked" and "undo" are problems. Half baked being a spondee and undo is iamb.

Ohh

Thank you

Wes

In these days where we have so many accents and stresses on differing parts of a word it is a local thing and this I believe is where the old way is moving away from correct Iambs or trochee words, even in this small country here we have at least 39 different accents, not taking into account the Scots Irish and Welsh, wouldn't like to sort out the America's.
I think this is why we use the word accent, need a new old style English to be perfect, that's one of the reasons the Bard could be so exact, the number of people that read in those days were few, so the English was more pure there was no millions of people and electronic gadgets to change the accentuation of words.
One day Text language will write poetry, and who is going to help us then.
Take care I will try and conform to the rule of old lol,
Yours, Ian..

MONO: ENDing

MONO: ENDing
DI: ENDing the/ STORy now/
TRI: ENDing the/ STORy now/ WOULD'nt be
TETRA: ENDing the/ STORy now/ WOULD'nt be/ MADness like
PENT: ENDing the/ STORy now/ WOULD'nt be/ MADness like/ KISSing you

dont know if this is correct. a bit confused!

Joan

Not quite
'' ENDing the/ STORy now/

First of all one trochee foot means you need two vowel sounds which follows the
'stressed, unstressed'' rule.
ENding is a trochee monometer but once you add 'the', it changes to dactyl, not trochee. one foot of a dactyl consists of 3 vowel sounds which follows the ''stressed, unstressed, unstressed'' rule.
What you have in the above verse is actually a dactyl dimeter, a verse with 2 dactyl feet.

Alid

Said I was confused lol!

Said I was confused lol! Thankyou

Joan and everyone else

here's a revision.

An iambic monometer or one foot.
Description - 1 or 2 words with the vowel sound following the 'unstressed, STRESSED, ' rule.
eg, ''re-FUSED'' and ''he BOWS''

An anapest monometer or one foot.
Description - 1 or more words with the vowel sound following the 'unstressed, unstressed, stressed'' rule.
e,g ''underSTAND'' and ''i am OUT.''

A trochee monometer or one foot.
Description- 1 or 2 words with the vowel sound following the '' STRESSED, unstressed'' rule.
eg ''HAP-py'' and ''KILL him!''

A dactyll monometer or one foot.
Description- 1 or more words with the vowel sound following the '' STRESSED, unstressed, unstressed'' rule.
eg. ''PA-ra-ble'' and ''OF-ten he..''

To know the stressed and unstressed vowel sounds, please check the dicionary and googled for more examples.

Alid

Ohh

I think this answers my "aging" question. It's trochee?

my troCHAic LIST

SEAson
SONnet
POem
SUMmer
AUTumn
WINter
FULfill
WRITTen
SUGer
LOVEly

That's really hard

Monometer: DREAMers
Dimeter: Come on!! GIVE up.
Trimeter : DREAMers || NEVer|| GIVE up
Tetrameter : DREAMers || NEITHer || DIE nor || LOSE theirs||
Pentameter: DREAMers !! ||CHASE your || DREAMS, you'll || NEVer || LOSE then

Hmmm.......here goes trochee, I hope

punting
ready
farted
started
trochee
rhythm
parsed
civil
war (pronounced whoa-ah by those south of Mason Dixon ....just for Jess lol)

I can't comment on everything,

so I will comment on some common mistakes.
First, in the lists some of the words are single syllables (like Stan's "parsed"... it is one syllable and therefore not iambic.
Rula, about half of your lines are trochee. For example "give up" would be accented on "up" making it iamb. Yes it is hard.

I need to acknowledge Alid. He has come up with some very insightful critiques that are right on the money (and saving me a ton of time). Heed him.

As for dialect... it was never a problem until the computer. We have a poet speaking English in a Palestinian accent (I know Rula... you don't think you have an accent). There a number of examples throughout our group and we all pronounce differently compared to others.
It makes critiquing a poem challenging. Take into consideration the personality of the poet and much will be clarified. We don't have profiles for nothing.

yes, sir

I too thought Khalid is doing great!!
Thank you Khalid.

As for my accent, I always wished I had a native one, but it is not that bad I think, and as for the stressed/unstressed syllables, it is always advisable to use the dictionary when we have doubts.

Let’s talk about rhyme.

There are as many ways to rhyme as there are meters. We will discuss the most common in English poetry.
There are two aspects of rhyme that must be treated separately.

First is the actual rhyme “type” and the second concerns rhyme placement.

Over half of rhyme in our language is what is termed “perfect, authentic rhymes”.
This rhyme is characterized by “two like sounding vowel or vowel/consonant sounds each preceded by an unlike consonant sound or no sound at all.” (Espy)

E.G. rhyme/time. The two words end with the vowel/consonant sound- “Im” with the “I” long. Then each word is preceded by different consonant sounds. In this case- “Ri” with the “I” long and the other with “T”.

More types of rhyme are: random rhyme, cross rhyme, identicals and on.

In the next exercise please use “perfect, authentic rhymes”.

Next is placement. Most of the time a poet will end the line with the rhyme, but there are any number of other choices. “End Rhyme” then is common, but we may use also initial rhyme where the rhyme begins the verse, internal rhyme where the rhyme is in the center of the verse and many more.

In the next exercise please use “end rhyme”.

A third concern is how the rhyme places itself from line to line. For example line “A” rhymes with line “B”. This is known as “couplets” (or heroic couplets).
One could rhyme the end of line A with line D, while rhyming B and C together. This is called an “envelope”.

In the next exercise please use couplets and end rhyme.

This is our next exercise:
Write two verses of iambic tetrameter OR pentameter with rhyming couplets. They must be end stop rhyme. This means each verse comes to a period, though the verses must be related.

e.g.
“It’s Tuesday and I gotta mount that colt.
The groundwork’s not gone well~ he tends to bolt.” (Snow)

Don’t dawdle please. This is designed to be a fast workshop covering a lot of information in a short while.
We’ll be moving on rather quickly, but we have a day or so for everyone to post an example.

my try

My rhyming couplets of iambic pentameter

the DE/ mon LORD/ has STAINED/ the NIGHT/ with FEAR
the HE/-roes Rise/ and LIFT/ their MA/-gic SPEAR

Alid

Salam Khalid

I'm not sure about the last "here". I thought it's unstressed, but let's see what the boss has to say.

There are some grammar problems

with the second line, but all is correct poetically.
"the hero raises or the heroes rise" then the rest of the sentence must match. Of course this shmucks with the meter.

"the heroes rise and lift their magic spear." (I kept the singular on "spear" to maintain the rhyme, so it must be a big spear if it takes more than one to lift it.)

Thanks, wes

done the edit.

Alid

Just a probably obvious

Just a probably obvious thought....Americans can rhyme potato and tomato...aussies and the english cant

Joan

are you serious? I thought they rhyme well with the 'to' sound at the end! Err may I ask why they can't rhyme them?

Alid

yes that's true. they do

yes that's true. they do rhyme at the end. I was referring more to the differences in pronunciation of the two words.I didn't make myself very clear, as usual! lol

Dialects are a stinker.

My couplet

Those birds forsook their warming nest
No wonder then they'd never rest.

those BIRDS || forSOOK || their WARM || ing NEST
no WOND || er THEN || they'd NEV || er REST.

Excellent Rula

Good scansion also. You have mastered that art.

Penty something

Forgetfulness is part of ageing brain
Though active the brain is where you need control
So take the time to see the sense of life
Yours Ian..

Here's my go at it!

this wind / it blows / so cold / and bleak.
my lips / are ice / its hard / to speak

Hey Joan

I think you get it but just to make sure, why don't you name the iambic meter. Is it iambic tetrameter or pentameter?

Alid

its tetrameter

Joan

you're right.

Alid

Yes. You're right.

In all of it.

My iambic pentameter, rhyme couplet, end stop rhyme

The boys brought joy to this empty nester.
Her boys resides in the town of Chester.

Not quite, Barbara

the BOYS/ brought JOY/ to this EMP/- ty NES/-ter.
iamb/ iamb/ anapest/ iamb/ half-foot

her BOYS/ re-SIDES / in the TOWN/ of Ches/ter.
iamb/ iamb/ anapest/ iamb/ half-foot.

The foot with the ''unstressed, unstressed, stressed'' rule is an anapest foot, not iamb. The half-foot is an incomplete feet, thus following no rules.

Try again.

Alid

My retention is effected; i copy/paste this as a memory aid.

Divide is to concur among brain cells
Cancer collides; loved ones taken away
Many decried the fight to beat the odds
Countless survived the harsh treatments allowed. this is a memory aid.

Iambic
Many empty nesters enjoy me time.
Nesters welcome grandkids visitation.

Wow.

So much for an intimate workshop. I am encouraged at the response. A lot of poets dealing with the basics enthusiastically is outrageous.

Okay, let's go for the last exercise.

A quatrain is a collection of four verses on the same subject. In easier words... a poem of four lines.
Let's stick with iamb or trochee. Dactyl and anapest will be for the next workshop.
Write a quatrain in iambic pentameter or trochaic pentameter.
The rhyme scheme must be couplets or an envelope.
We write them like so... couplets: aabb, and an envelope is abba. The letters signifying the rhyme sound.

Ready, set, go.
Anyone who has not finished the other exercises by all means continue.

My try on iambic pentameter

Just when I thought the fight has reached its end,
the boxer leapt and strike with all his might.
He pounced, he punched, he conquered hearts, my friend
and that is how I won the bet that night!

just WHEN/ i THOUGHT/ the FIGHT/ had REACHED/ it's END,
the BOX/-er LEAPT/ and CHARGED/ with ALL/ his MIGHT.
he POUNCED,/ he PUNCHED/ he CON/-quered HEARTS,/ my FRIEND
and THAT/ was HOW/ i WON/ the BET/ that NIGHT!

Alid

The meter and rhyme scheme are perfect,

but there are some tense problems I feel I should point out.

Just when I thought the fight has reached its end, ("thought" is past tense and "has" is present. These tenses must match. Either "think" and has or thought and "had")
the boxer leapt and strike with all his might. (this also has tense problems. "leapt" is past and "strike" is present. One or the other must change its tense)
He pounced, he punched, he conquered hearts, my friend
and that is how I won the bet that night!

As to the exercise I give thee an A. And it was a funny poem to boot.

Wes

I've edited the quatrain. What do you think?

Alid

My iambic pentameter envelope

First two lines. Iambic abba

"Some times people over fifty just can't.
Divide is to concur among brain cells. "

Some things never changes; the world is cold
Her dream burns like candle in the wind
She fought a few battles, she lost them all
They still linger like stars eon years old.

Not quite, Barbara

It's either iambic or trochee.
"Envelope'' refers to the rhyming pattern, not the meter. The last word of the first line last line must rhyme with the last word of the last line. I believe the lat words of tne second and third line must rhyme as well. The meter is only one type throughout the quatrain.

Alid

Envelope,

is a rhyme scheme. "wind" and "all" need to rhyme. line one rhymes with line four while line two rhymes with line three. ABBA.
The meter is a bit of a mish mash. The rhythm is good, but it is not iambic pentameter.
Try scanning it and you'll see.

Some things / never / changes; / the world / is cold (do you see how uneven it is? the first foot is trochee as the second, but the last two are iamb. There is nothing wrong with this. This poetry and the rhythm is paramount, but for the purposes of the workshop it needs work.
Feel better. I pray for you Barbara.

iambic pentameter, couplet

at times/ this wind /it blows/ so cold/ and bleak
I sense/my lips/ are ice/ its hard /to speak
a cup/ of tea/ a hug/ a rug/ some sun?
a dream/ of warmth / for when / this run/ is done!

Bravo, Joan

you did it!

Alid

Marvelous.

You don't need me, you need a more challenging workshop. Prepare yourself for the next one. It will be a tad more difficult.

Now, can you do one in Trochee?

i like this Joan

I really do!! Well done!!

thank Rula

Three more days,

let's talk about something difficult.

First of all, if you have been able to produce a quatrain in iamb then try one in trochee.
I have seen a lot of noble attempts and a few that were perfect.

But let's talk about "catalectics".
A catalectic is an extra fragment of an iamb or trochee verse.
E.g: "To be or not to be, that is the question". The Bard's line is in iambic pentameter, but the second syllable of "question" is extra.
This is perfectly acceptable in strict poetry like we're working on. Keep it in mind while you finish your quatrains.

my iambic quatrain

I yearn for lands, with lawns so rich and green
The grains of sand are pearls, and golden dunes
No clouds to veil, no mist to blur the moon
A sanctuary, a sacred haven, clean.

trochaic pentameter quatrain

trochaic pentameter quatrain - couplet

dogs are / prone to / sleep on / floors and / so-fas
cats may / rest on / beds and / shoes like / loaf-ers
lounge-ing / liz-ards / bask on / rock-y / led-ges
birds may / perch in / trees and / prick-ly / hed-ges

What do you mean learning curve?

You've curved and flipped. This is just what the assignment called for. It's even a little tricky at times.
Very cool little poem.

Trochaic pentameter

WHITE and/ YELlow/ LILies' /MAGic/ FRAGrance/
SENTa/WAY my / BLUE and/, GLOOMy/ MOMents/
GOSSmer/ BRIGHTness/WOVE with/ Utmost /PAtience/
YARNS that /SPIN a/ROUND the/ TIME com/POnents

White and yellow lilies' magic fragrance,
sent away my blue and gloomy moments.
Gossamer brightness wove with utmost patience
yarns that spin around the time components.

Problem.

"GLOOMY" is two syllables. Which changes the scan. It breaks in the middle of the word.
Do you see?

SENTa/WAY my / BLUE and/, GLOOMy/ MOMents/

I think

we agree on how the verse is scanned? It is
"GLOOMy", isn't it?

You're right.

My bad. Don't know what I saw to make me think their was a problem.

Iambic pentameter envelope rhyme

Some things never change; the world is cold
Her dreams burn; as candle in the wind
She fights a few battles she just can't win
Her dreams linger like stars eon years old.

Seems most of the problem is grammatical.

I can still

some few problems with meter Barbara.
Can you do the scansion. It helps to see how you pronounce the verses.

Hope this helps

Some things / never/ change; the /world is /cold
Her dreams burn/; as cand/le in/ the wind
She fights/ a few /battles/ she just/ can't win
Her dreams/ linger/ like stars/ eon/ years old.

On some screens the bolding is hard to see, this is just easier to do (select>Ctrl B) than re-typing in caps.

To my reading this very little resembles Iambic Pentameter.

Very much so

Thanks glad too see you here. I correct errors tomorrow.

Too much good stuff.

Loved, you've got it. Now apply it to your poetry.
Barbara, you still have some tense problems and its partly trochee.
Rula and Alid you made some excellent quatrains.
Joan, what can I say? What holes in your poetic education were you talking about? It's time you taught these workshops. Excellent quatrain.

Gee thanks Wesley. But its

Gee thanks Wesley. But its all really a big learning curve at present! Joan

Thank you sir

It's always great to do some refreshing exercises.
Thank you for the effort and the time.

My try on trochaic pentameter

SEEK your/ WORTH be/-YOND this/ WORLD, my/ BRO-thers!
E-ven/ DEATH can/-NOT de/-NY your/ TRUTH here.
PA-les/-TINE, may/ YOU will/ RISE with/-OUT fear!
PRAY for/ THEM and/ HOPE for/ GLO-ry/ SIS-ters!

Alid

Thank you Khalid

For the little tribute. I like it

Salam, Rula

What about the parsing? Did I do it correctly?

Alid

Yes

I think you did Khalid.

A small sugestion

to make parsing less of a chore: copy and post the poem, select stressed syllables and press Ctrl B. Then go back and insert the / to separate the feet.
The only problem with this method, which otherwise makes the whole process easier and more explicable is that on some screens the Bold Bold is difficult to see. Can you see the difference between Bold and Bold here?

The Elf is right,

but I know that some of us have trouble using it. It might be time for a workshop review on Advanced Formating.

I might take that on as a quick workshop, Wesley

some advanced formatting and maybe even sound recording for SoundCloud or Vocaroo.

I would appreciate that very much.

Knowing how to use these tools would be invaluable.

We're one day over that I promised.

Thanks to everyone who contributed. This will close this workshop, but anyone with an exercise undone wishing to post please do so. We all will continue to critique until there is no participation.
I know I will be around.

Who wants a tech workshop?

I know Stan desperately needs one (sorry to single you out, mate but I need people to step forward if this workshop is worth running)
I would start from simple techniques like selecting and copy-and-paste, which many of you haven't learned and are the basis of working in Windows or Mac. I would use Youtube instructional videos.
So who is interested?

Leader: Wesley
Moderator(s): Rula

Objectives: To explore rudimentary poetic concepts in and entertaining way.

Level of expertise: Open to all

Subject matter: Basic poetry meter and rhyme schemes. The use of a poetic form.