S
By scribbler, 13 November, 2018
Participants
scribbler
Sparrow
raj
Eumolpus
IRiz
weirdelf
Skill level
Splash Pool
Date
-
Short description
We will start with an ongoing discussion of what implied imagery is and how it can help our poetry. we will then each submit a poem(other than our own) for shop purposes. After being submitted each poem will be stripped of imagery by another member then r
Sparrow

Please add me to your workshop, I am busy but it will be a pleasure to be with our poets,
Yours Ian ..

S

Implied or inferred imagery is a wonderful tool when used right. It's also difficult TO use right or even define what right is lol. But since its use can be such a powerful thing let's see if we can define it:
Implied imagery is the picture formed within a mind from reading a word or phrase which is Not just the word or phrase. We can all give detailed descriptions in order to convey exact images but that can tend to be a bit verbose and can also hinder the reader's imagination.
So let's use a single word and see what it brings to mind...Raven..On first impression it's just a medium sized black bird.,,,

What else does it bring to mind for ya'll? i'll check back in in a couple hours and see what responses are forthcoming......stan

Sparrow

Eye pecking, dark portrayer of death that many on the Tyburn tree didn't feel..

Dew:- Vestiges of temperature changes, left to glow liken to diamonds, in the suns new day..

Hello Stan, I have put two here, so we can sort out what we are needing, if these two are no good I shall endeavour to write as you require later probably tomorrow,
Yours, Ian

S

But for now let's just concentrate on Raven and see what other participants have to say. I myself hear raven or crow and I think of them carrying should from here to the next life

R

raj

6 years 5 months ago

Raven-implied imagery - ill omen., lost souls. ghosts of murdered people
......................................................................................

S

Time to start thinking about some poem (it can be yours, somebody else's on site (get permission) or a famous writer's) which has extensive imagery but is not Too long. Don't submit the poem until I ask you to......stan

S

Leave it posted although it would have been better to wait until I asked lol. Don't want people getting ahead of other people

S

Problem. With the site members all over the world we have to be careful that some of us don't get ahead of others.

lovedly

a black bird all know

makes one's heart sink
feel the guilt when someone is amiss
or dying in a hospy
murky feeling
may kill a living human
raven be still
go to your grave ye will
darkness of night you portray
on a moonlit night
sad bad omen
for lovers any one
they all will a raven shun
now stan
you just imagine your mind
why has it chosen raven
as you are suffering still
deep in knee pain may be
kill me if you will

susan will appreciate this
cast away the blackness
stan quickly

lovedly

u can never be
the raven kinda man

you have always
had ur stand
holding better half's hand

lucky man

Eumolpus

I think "Nevermore”. Hence this poem I posted a while back... I think everybody (every person who ever took an American Literature course) would think the same.
It's in our culture, a cartoon raven always says it. I hope by posting this a bit longer poem is in line with the idea of this workshop....

"Nevermore"

To EAP

Our vehicles swarm on a steel hot day
Around the busy round-about
Where the highway meets Route 4.
It was there my eyes saw a raven
Arriving and defiantly posed
Folding his wings behind his back,
In the center of the berm with dead weeds,
Encircled by a wall of stone.

His eyes followed our every move;
Black like the craggy graveyards
He must have come from
(Like that stupid poem we read in school
About some creepy bird and fool).

The zig-zag of cars avoided his gaze
Amid the thump of rock and roll
And the taste of diesel fuel,
Swerving around the traffic loop,
A bottleneck for we suburbanites
For lo the many years,
Parading daily, always weary,
Drained by work or lack of sleep
Awaking from the dreamless dream,
No different than our kinsmen of before...
(Only this, and nothing more.)

The bird stands his ground in dreadful sight,
Not once to take to flight
Despite the blaring horns
From trucks howling like wolves.
As we pass we try to hide our fright-
He is both half bird and ghost
(Like that poem we once had to read
O what did it mean? What did it mean?)

How long he’ll stay we cannot know
Perched on his pulpit in the weeds,
None of us dare speak of it,
Or worship it, or seek to comprehend
Why we just don’t shoot it dead
As he croaks a word we can’t ignore
That fills us with forgotten lore
(From that poem we all deplore,
The one felt in our very core-
“Nevermore!”
“Nevermore!”)

..

S

Poe's raven likely is the best known bird in poetry. Using this poem to answer the numerous things a raven can bring to mind works pretty well although to have just stated the things would have been a bit shorter lol

IRiz

IRiz

6 years 5 months ago

Hi Stan,
thank you for organizing this interesting workshop and for including me.

My thoughts on the matter are probably not new to anybody, but since you asked:

The word alone without context is usually understood in its direct sense.
When it is surrounded by specific style of language
and by other words that hint on potential indirect meaning of the word, we start noticing that symbolic meaning is implied by the author. The rest is like Japanese drawing the less lines/words the better. None of the descriptions can be complete, imagery is always a scheme that invokes readers' imagination. Where is it enough to stop describing is a matter of taste and writer's fear not to be understood.
Also for implied imagery no metaphor and no symbolic meaning is necessary!

the childless woman
touches the dolls
so tenderly

In this poem by Ransetsu (Basho student) reader sees a woman that touches the doll but imagines everything that goes through her heart

About the word "raven", it has a cultural reference to a talking bird that says to the tormented lover "Nevermore" and has become a symbol of self-inflicted pain, but if I read about nesting and vocalizing ravens, i don't think about the word nevermore. Funny, but when i read the word "nevermore" i do think sometimes about the talking raven.

The last thing i want to say that implied imagery is very common in prose as well. Especially in good one.

S

IS fairly common. What we are going to attempt here is make it a thing we use more on purpose rather than coincidentally.

S

Let's each post a single line of no more than 5 words which has a lot of implied imagery. Once they are all posted here we'll all tell what the images are which it brings to mind then we'll hear from the author which ones she/he intended. No rush

Sparrow

Here are a few words, needed six really as you know I over word things.

"Eyes neatly plucked, from death"
Ravens feast from the old days ..

"Beware you Tyburn tree swingers"
Sarcastic mirth of bad taste lol
Just an addition for fun, Yours Ian .

IRiz

IRiz

6 years 5 months ago

Here are my five words

Solitude.
Not again.
Still waiting.

I can't resist, it is a very good exercise, here are two more sets:

Coming out, exposed, embracing, releaved.

Flying over.
Hopeful.
Too late.

lovedly

Lovedly's five words only seed

second set

relieve
self
from all
pangs

third one

stress
high BP
cause
lovelessness

fourth

satisfaction
dreams
fascination
final culmination

IRiz

lol, my lines are not separate words, my friend.
they are examples of implied images
if you read the first one again, you will see that it implies
that there is someone who just broke up, doesn't like one's solitude and still hopes that one day meets somebody

the second one implies that there is a person who just admitted something about self, feels exposed and freed in the same time

the last one about someone who flew too late for the dying loved one.

On the other hand your line, Deep green winter woods
does't let me imply much
I can not even tell if it is a tropical or snowy winter.

for example, tall evergreens on untouched snow

implies mature woods away from trails in cold winter

or clattering winter rain
green rhododendrons

implies a thicket in a mild climate

or magnolia blooms
green tropical winter

all these images are permitted to be imagined when you read "Deep green winter woods"

so if one's want to be understood the broad terms are better to be avoided
We came to a great conclusion after this discussion! Thanks for your time. I think the workshop will be very useful for me.

R

raj

6 years 5 months ago

soles connect soul to soil

soles feel the soul

soul the sole companion

I'm guessing Stan may next ask participants to write a poem which has that line :}
................................................................

.

S

Soles connected soul to soil very good line. I think it might be about a farmer's connection to the land. Now let's see what others make of it

S

The main problem with your lines is that I asked for one only. Let's wait and see what Sparrow posts and we'll start commenting on the lines we have submitted. BTW an entire poem IS coming but not next lol

Sparrow

The lovely Sparrow gave you the five word lines as soon as you asked for them two in fact and both were about the Ravens habits.. Take care, Yours Ian ..

S

Next lets all take the line(S) that Sparrow submitted and state what images those words bring to mind. Don't cheat and look at others' stuff before listing your own images.
I'll begin :
Eyes neatly plucked from death - I'll list my first impression , I see a person who is dying but then by whatever cause is saved from death

R

I abstain because I couldn't connect...
if it is mandatory to respond, you may fail me and exclude me from the SHOP going forward. Too tough for me. I believe this WS is more for the sharks though stated as open to all....
............................................................................................................................

S

hang in there. Just because you are a bit lost now doesn't mean that you will remain so.

IRiz

IRiz

6 years 5 months ago

Eyes neatly plucked from death

I don't like the line, it makes me to imagine
a meticulous surgion who extracts eyes for transplantation
The line implies that probably only the eyes are saved.
The use of the word pluck reminds me that eyes are attached to the head by stems containing blood vessels and nerves
It suggests that this stems are now teared.
What a disgusting image.
My morning is darkened.

Sparrow

Your summary is so near the real object of the event, it wasn't the surgeon, it was the Raven again lol.
The Black attendant of the Tyburn tree..
Thanks for your attention and realistic thought pattern, Yours as always Ian xx
PS:- I am so sorry that you can see and feel the images, it was my fault x

Geezer

My image for this phrase is: The memory of a dead person's eyes as they looked in life.
.

S

I had a previously planned deer hunting trip for Thanksgiving day and thus will be taking the day off. I'll be back Friday so ya'll just continue without me

weirdelf

backtracking a bit- ravens, you'll hate this, eyeballs on battlefields.

I'd like to introduce a word seldom used in this context- metonymy. Not quite the same as symbols. I'll give you the dictionary definition-
"a figure of speech that consists of the use of the name of one object or concept for that of another to which it is related, or of which it is a part, as 'scepter' or crown for sovereignty,” or 'the bottle' for “strong drink,” or “count heads (or noses)” for count people."

Think of 'the long arm of the law', 'The pen is mightier than the sword' (two metonyms there), 'The GM car with many holes' meaning a fatuous, abusive and self-promoting person. 'The White House' stands in for the US government. 'Suits' to represent businessmen. It is a much more frequently used alternative to imagery than we imagine. cf
https://examples.yourdictionary.com/examples-of-metonymy.html

Good on you Raj! It is really much better to post example poems linked to the workshop in the usual way, rather than in this thread. They make it unmanageable long.

R

thanks for throwing light on metonymy...while i know few words or phrases mentioned by you..knew precious little or nothing about the other examples....it's because a) I am not well read b) english not being my mother tongue my progress is slow though trying to continually improve...

shall be passively following this work shop as part of the learning process..

thanks again,
...........................................................................

S

The commanders' eyeball on the battle field is a lot different than the soldiers'

Geezer

"A breath of fresh air." I think of breathing new life into a subject by another person's view.

S

Everybody try to find a poem by a famous poet which has some implied imagery. I'll start out with Frost's "Road Not Taken :
Two roads diverged in a yellow wood.....yellow wood not only says it's autumn but also tells the species of trees
And sorry I could not travel both
and be one traveler long I stood....Tells he's alone and in no hurry
And looked down one as far as I could
To where it bent in the undergrowth...bent implies the road was straight for a spell

Then took the other as just as fair
And having perhaps the better claim
because it was grassy and wanted wear....this implies the road wanted traffic
Though as for that the passing there
Had worn them really about the same

And both that morning equally lay
In leaves no step had trodden black....this tells that the road was in the northeast where the soil is dark grey
Oh! I kept the first for another day!
Yet knowing how way leads on to way
I doubted if I should ever come back

I shall be telling this with a sigh.... this sigh could mean numerous things
Somewhere ages and ages hence......telling he is young when road was taken
Two roads diverged in a wood , and I-
I took the one less traveled by,
and that has made all the difference.

Alright these are implied image I found. Do ya'll see any more?

R

good learning lesson for me Stan...thanks..
.....................................................................................

R

Then took the other as just as fair
And having perhaps the better claim
[perhaps means, the road was preferred by commoners]

Though as for that the passing there
Had worn them really about the same
[perhaps means the other road was also used by some]
...................................

S

I think these lines could easily be interpreted as you say. But you don't have to use the same poem that I used. If you have or have read a poem with implied imagery please feel free to post it and identify the imagery.

Sparrow

Am short of time at the moment but will see what I can find tomorrow 29/11 Take care it is 1am here I am off to bed..

S

No big rush. Will give us time to talk about you behind your back....just kidding lol

Sparrow

I rushed to our full length mirror, there is no one talking behind me, just that beautiful me grinning at the reflection..
Oh wait!! There is some men in white coats over my shoulder, they say I have to go with them, bye for now young woodsman lol x

Eumolpus

The thread has become so long...is there an easy way to catch up and be engaged?

S

This series of poems is just an exercise and not the poems which will constitute the meat of this shop.THOSE poems will go on stream and thus shorten this thread to general discussion while allowing members to see the shop in action on the stream. There is a method to my madness lol.....wait I said madness so it should be tee hee hee

S

It's pretty long but after this exercise the brunt of the shop will transfer to the stream.As far as catching up you can likely read the first 20 items then the last 10 and be in pretty good shape.

IRiz

Summer grasses –
all that remains from the dreams
of brave warriors

In this haiku Basho implies that the war is over long time ago, the warrior’s dreams of fame and victory don’t mean much now, only the empty battlefield is kept untouched and grows grasses as a memory and respect to their lost lives.

Sparrow

This is where I describe a poet we all love yet I try to see through the subtle ways she presents herself to the world, I hope she doesn't mind me using this piece ..
The image seen but still hidden from most eyes..
Described in a sort of puzzle way..

Beauregard

Birthday girl of muddled ways
Ever inside wanting to truthfully see
Antisipating and always seeking a new way
Underestimating her own worth each day
Remembering most of the bad things
Ever losing sight of her own reality
Graced by a mind that is sharp and pure
Always giving way not being sure
Remember as you walk the next age
Dear Beauregard unique in many ways..

Here is a poem written for me by a Buddhist who tends a garden and sanctuary a few miles from us here..
It is a pity that we cannot put photos on here as you could see the beauty of his mind manifested in the garden he tends ..
Perfect weather

Sitting in the summer garden
Inner energy and outer climate are one
Seamless Passion

My body and nature world
are one perfect harmony.
Self and universe are one pure unity.

Perfect Weather
Sitting in the garden
Being one wholeness.

I love the summer
Everything beautiful
Creation wonder
Human life Miracle.

Maitreya

Buddhamaitreya.co.uk
https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipPqnEODKsdDbXYT7oLUyfxz0iwoXhMtBuL…

Yours as always Ian.

Eumolpus

it is not intuitive to post a poem in the "main" or "home page" stream when in a workshop stream, while evey one is posting here... Apologies, but I'm not sure where we are. I left off at ravens, am now in Haiku..?
I appreciate this is very difficult. It is very hard to keep a group discussion focused online. Perhaps what it needs is a chair that all have to follow like in a classroom, and that leader will include the various ideas, like on a blackboard. The group should be limited in their responses perhaps- everyone has a small space to fill in. Like a poetry "prompt" ...I'm just thinking aloud..

S

as this shop apparently is for participants it has been maybe a little harder for the inept leader lol.

S

From this point on this thread should be used ONLY for general shop discussion and/or "fill in time" minor thought bombs.
We now enter the bones of the shop. The rest of this shop will take place on stream. This seems strange I know but there's a reason. It opens up everybody's efforts in the shop to everybody' discussion and also isolates each poem proffered.
Firstly : DO NOT post a poem on stream until I ask you to. This will enable each poem to receive its due consideration and receive feedback without being crowded out by a flood of other shop poems. Be sure to hit "Workshop" tab when entering poem and when making comments on a poem.
We begin by entering a poem, any poem, which is rich in stated imagery. Your own poem, a famous poem, a poem by a friend doesn't matter. Be sure if it's not a poem you wrote that you identify the poet.,
I'm gonna call on ya'll in reverse order of the participant's list as that's about as random a way as any. BTW try to not enter TOO long a poem so as to make it easier on the rest of us.
Now let me check participants list...........Jess (weirdelf) you are first up PS don't forget to put (implied imagery shop) next to poem title

S

Green- usually used to denote color but could also denote something not yet ripe or inexperienced. Could also in proper context imply evil
Mossy- means covered in mossy, could also implied old, undisturbed, old fashioned or outdated (like Me)
Gay- nowadays usual use is to mean homosexual. In the old days it meant merry or care free.

NEXT

R

raj

6 years 4 months ago

barren ...unproductive / desolate
echo ...reflection of sound / memory
............................................

Eumolpus

I am happy you chose that poem, as dear to poetry as the Mona Lisa is to painting.
Are you asking us for any specific thing about the imagery of Coleridge poem or are we free to just discuss it as it just comes to us?

I'm looking up "implied imagery" in my poetry books and online, finding "implied metaphor" and "implied rhyme" but not "imagery". but I know what "imply" means and think it may mean here "to hint or suggest" something true, which can exist even if only in the imagination.

so if the goal here is "To get folks thinking about how the use of certain words and phrases can expand the message conveyed by poetry" there is much to discuss in this poem, I think many have done many a thesis on it!
Is there a certain aspect of the imagery we should discuss..or more general?

S

metonymy has its place then Place it here lol. Please define and give an example.

weirdelf

so will copy and paste here-

I'd like to introduce a word seldom used in this context- metonymy. Not quite the same as symbols. I'll give you the dictionary definition-
"a figure of speech that consists of the use of the name of one object or concept for that of another to which it is related, or of which it is a part, as 'scepter' or crown for sovereignty,” or 'the bottle' for “strong drink,” or “count heads (or noses)” for count people."

Think of 'the long arm of the law', 'The pen is mightier than the sword' (two metonyms there), 'The GM car with many holes' meaning a fatuous, abusive and self-promoting person. 'The White House' stands in for the US government. 'Suits' to represent businessmen. It is a much more frequently used alternative to imagery than we imagine. cf
https://examples.yourdictionary.com/examples-of-metonymy.html

See, Stan? I think it is a very relevant concept.

S

Doing so will hopefully help us get our heads around the difference between the two later.
Now as to finding a definition for implied imagery...that might be hard because I don't think this has Been defined before and seldom thought about. But if we can get to where we can use it on purpose it should add a lot of power to our writing. Perhaps another example might be a good thing...hmmmmm..."green winter woods". this might mean woods of evergreen trees. It might mean woods in the southern hemisphere in the winter months.

weirdelf

(as wordsmiths, not with your daughter)
Perhaps the greatest wordcrafters culturally ever.

S

Please post your poem on stream now. Be sure to put (imagery shop) next to title and to hit workshop button at bottom of page. You can post any poem you want, yours(old or new) some known writer's or somebody's on site.......stan

S

Time to post your poem. Be sure to put( impiled imagery shop) next to title and punch workshop button at bottom.......stan

S

Time to post your poem now. Please put (implied imagery) next to title and don't forget to hit workshop tab at bottom of page........stan

R

raj

6 years 4 months ago

I was dreading when you tell me "you next"..I had therefore clearly said that I would be here just to learn by reading others...thanks but please note that I am saying "Pass"...
.............................................................................................

S

All you have to do is post an imagery laden poem. It can be one of yours or one that somebody else wrote. Take a chance

R

Thanks but i still say "Pass"
....................................................

Sparrow

Time to make Part two of this workshop this one has reached 100 comments and is becoming too long to run through,
Take care Yours Ian ..

S

You have a good point but I'm going to wait until everybody has posted their poem. That way won't have to go back and forth. BTW time for you to post your poem. Can be one of yours or anybody's as long as it's rich in imagery. Don't forget to put (implied imagery shop) next to title and to hit workshop button.........stan

Sparrow

I posted one of Eskers "I catch the Rain " to the workshop for this purpose, Posted 7 days ago and you commented are you OK LOL .. Did you need another one ??
Take care.
Yours Ian ..

S

was going by the reverse order in which participants joined and had forgotten you had jumped the gun. would you be so kind as to do some tiny edit to bring this back to top of stream?

S

We will now remove as much imagery as we can from our submitted poems and not destroy the poem. Please wait until I call on you and post the "stripped" poem below the poem which is on stream as an edit. Jess, you are first. Any questions?

S

Let's hear from ya'll what the advantages of using implied imagery can be. I'll start by saying implied imagery can often say a great deal with a few words. This condenses meaning and can thus lessen the length of a poem.

S

I have been awol with bronchial pneumonia. But on the mend and back again (pause for cries of dismay). So here we go again. Iris it's time you remove imagery from your poem and post stripped version directly below the original version.........stan

S

Since IRiz has had to leave then it is time for Eumolpus to post your stripped version of your poem......stan

S

Anybody who has not yet posted their stripped down version of their poem on stream below their original poem please do so now. Be sure to put (implied imagery stripped version next to title

S

I regret being absent so much. I have been pretty sick since before Christmas but am much better now. So it's all get this shop back on the road. The fun part is about to begin........stan

S

It is now time to put into practice what we've been discussing. We will each be assigned a
stripped" poen to rewrite using implied imagery. In doing this please post the stripped poem on line with credit given to the pros who posted it then put your rewritten version directly under it. Title your post (Implied Imagery Shop Rewrite) right beside the original title .
Here are the assignments :
Scribbler will do Sparrow's poem
Sparrow will do Eumolpus' poem
Eumolpus will do weird elf's poem
weirdelf will do scribbler's poem.

If you have questions let em rip ...........stan

Description:An exploration of phrases and words that convey more meaning than their dictionary definition

Leader: scribbler
Moderator(s): weirdelf

Objectives:To get folks thinking about how the use of certain words and phrases can expand the message conveyed by poetry

Level of expertise: Open to all

Subject matter:Implied imagery and it uses