S
By scribbler, 20 June, 2017
Participants
scribbler
wesley snow
weirdelf
Mark
chevyvent
T. Harmonee
jane210660
Rhiannon1010
lonlyhrtsclub13
Eumolpus
QueenS.L.O.W.TheAlmost-Poet
Sparrow
lovedly
swamp-witch
Rula
vandiemenspeak
alidzain
Race_9togo
Skill level
Splash Pool
Date
-
weirdelf

looking forward to more information

wesley snow

please welcome T. Harmonee and Chevyvent to the workshop.
I know they will be invaluable.

S

Without giving too much away we Will be covering using the right amount of imagery which can result in limiting imagery so a poem doesn't read too "flowery"........stan

S

I am pleased to see all of you here. Both those who have endured shops of mine in the past as well as newer members who are taking a chance on me. I'll try my best to not let you down........stan

S

index finger is now numb from PMs lol. I'll give it a rest then send some more this evening. I appreciate the help. Have you already invited Roar? If not would you prefer I do so?

weirdelf

who has been away for a while but saw this promoted on Facebook and asked to join.
Now she and all her friends know about this and the contest.

Rula

Rula

7 years 10 months ago

might join a bit late (a week or so ) but will be curious to read the posts and share whenever possible.
Thank you Stan and Wesley.

S

means many things to many people. i already looked up how Webster defines it and will post the definition later. What I'd like to know right now is what ya'll think imagery in poetry is.....and no fair looking it up lol.........stan

S

"Thus the sense and even words pointing to the senses are contradictory to imagery in poetry as those words; seeing, hearing, tasting, touching and smelling or any word pointing to those words undermine the challenge of the poet to use creativity and show the reader (imagery)." Might just be me being tired but this is pretty obscure to me. In my humble opinion creativity can sometimes lead to lack of clarity. But I'm not any kind of final authority as you well know. Why not simply say what one means in fairly simple language? "Gelid" is a word but so is cold. Does being less used make gelid the better of the two?

wesley snow

Simplicity is not always the way to go. Clarity is one thing, but painting with obscure colors can often be more beautiful than using the colors we are familiar with.

Imagery is a mental picture. A way to (as Mark said) stimulate the senses through words.

"Imagery from the Latin is a likeness, picture, semblance, concept, imitation or copy" (looked that up).

Imagery is sometimes the difference between a photograph and a painting. A photograph may give us precisely what is being shown, but a painting requires interpretation. In that interpretation lies an image that will be different for different readers.

S

You and Mark both think having to look up some obscure word in the middle of reading a poem actually helps a reader form a better picture? Something we tend to forget on a workshop site is that poetry should be written for the general public not other poets. There will be No image formed if the reader quits a poem because they don't want to bother looking some word like abele up......stan

weirdelf

but I agree with Wes.
I would expect a lot of unusual and very useful words to come up in relation to imagery.

And I've got no time for any reader, poet, scholar, barely literate or child, who is too lazy to look something up in a dictionary. It need not interfere with the flow of the reading, just look it up the second time. How many times do you read any poem just once? Not being willing to learn new words is not just lazy, it's that most heinous crime, punishable by death in some societies, wilful ignorance.

sibilance, frisson, susurrating, fulgorous, rubicund...

S

who should determine the level of vocabulary or even interest of a random reader? Should we all just assume everybody has a large vocabulary and at the same time assume a poem we pen is interesting enough for a reader to take the time to look up words?
Poetry Is For Everybody, not just those with literature or related degrees. A poem which is not read and at least fairly well understood is a failure in my opinion.

weirdelf

Stan never really admitted that we should express ourselves freely regardless of our readers vocabulary.
I love him to (almost) death but he's an ornery SOB.

You know what really pissed me off? He used the word 'abeles' as an example of a rare word that shouldn't be used. He may even have done it on purpose knowing it occurs in one of my all time favourite poems, Gerard Manley Hopkins' "Starlit Night"

S

"why did the ant crawl up the cow's leg a second time/" it got pissed off the first time lol. You know I have also used abele in a poem. And you are still missing my point. a poet who NEEDLESSLY uses obscure language is making a mistake. Take the word atlatl for example. When it is needed it is really needed because it's the only single word which describes the object. But to be used when not really needed it's a bit out of place

weirdelf

I freely admit when I am wrong.
You are in the spirit of wrong here. I would shut up if you admitted it. Wesley, Chris, and I know Jane agree that you have been arguing in the spirit of wilful ignorance, admitting only pedantically to specific exceptions to using the best word, not the only word, to express imagery.
I like Frost and sort of respect Wordsworth with similar ideals to yours.
I totally disrespect any wilfully ignorant dick who won't pick up or click on a dictionary.
I totally disrespect any poet who uses a common word in place of even a slightly better less common word for the sake of ignorant public acceptance.

vandiemenspeak

Some of the most rewarding poetry is demanding of the reader, and yes - you do need to reach for your copy of the OED, or just Google it. And that's the expansive beauty of accumulation; of adding to the store of knowledge that poetry - sometimes 'difficult' poetry adds to human understanding. Sometimes the more obscure word just fits, or bolts or taps into place, where the more commonplace, pedestrian one would 'do' but just isn't right. That's what gives poetry containing imagery such power, that it does contain another dimension, that we - as active readers, have to go and look beyond our collective navels and out the window sometimes, to discover more. And who, in their right mind wouldn't want to do that?

So I could have said - 'it's a cool word, it sounds great, you don't know what it means, look it up'

We are all 'opsimaths' so said Stephen Fry, - good for him.

My two cents.

Chris.

weirdelf

A writer can't know whether a reader knows the meaning of almost any word but it is absolutely the writer's responsibility to use the best possible word to convey their imagery, even if it is not a very common word.

I'm going to keep on replying until you at least acknowledge that it is the writer's responsibility to use the best possible word to convey their imagery.

S

I keep agreeing that there Are words which are the only possible word to use in some circumstances. But I'm a firm believer in the KISS principle when it come to poetry. When the word "water" is what best describes the fluid why say hydrogen hydroxide? I know I've not read as many of the old masters as you have but the ones I Have read don't bend over backwards to show they have a large vocabulary."Hydrogen Hydroxide" Could be the best word but only if the poem demands that the chemical make up of water is needed/

Race_9togo

The answer is...you try to steer the reader towards the meaning of the word, using context.
But every serious poet should have a dictionary. Especially on-line poets. There's no excuse not to use one.

wesley snow

and I keep it with my thesaurus and rhymer.
Never use "and" twice in the same sentence. It is a rejoinder that should be used but once separating two halves of a sentence.
There... I make the observation myself, so no one else need do so.
It's a curse.

Rula

Rula

7 years 10 months ago

show the reader a scene rather than telling him
About it .
The big question is "how"?

weirdelf

a littel buk larnin neva hirt nowun
even a reader of poetry. Everyone with a computer or phone has immediate access to a dictionary.

The reason to use 'obscure' words is that they shouldn't be obscure. Not to use a little known word if it is an exact simile of a common one, but because it more exactly describes what you want to say.

I'm all for accessibility, but never for dumbing down.

All of this has nothing to do with imagery per se. And it is very important.

S

So using it is a no brainer. But using obscure words just to show off a large vocabulary is just an ego display. "I elected to use the thoroughfare which was not a victim of heavy traffic" or "I took the road less traveled". We have to take care to not appear to be talking down to readers. ........

What does this have to do with imagery in poetry? i think most will agree that the flow of a poem is important and who wants to interrupt the flow of a poem by requiring people to stop periodically to look up the meaning of a $10 word just because the writer wants to impress folks with a large vocabulary. "Course if your intended target is other poets or professors that's a whole different thing but it's also a bit like masturbating isn't it?.........stan

S

If you read my reply you will see that I agreed that at times an obscure word is the only word that can be used. i have tentative plans for s "right word" shop later but that will be later........stan

S

hesitate on posting their own definition of imagery here. i doubt any of them will be either totally wrong or right as imagery IS a bit subjective........stan

Rula

Rula

7 years 10 months ago

whatever evokes the reader's taste, sight and smell (and/or emotions) is classified as imagery.

weirdelf

People tend to associate imagery with sight but the other senses are applicable.
Yes, imagery is that which evokes a sensory response.

S

Rula is only partly right and mainly so because of Mark's reasoning......Let's see what others think

Sparrow

To find words that show the reader a feeling, sight, or other senses, than that of a plain three dimensional object.
This is where the poet can reach inward to their own imaginations view, taking the chance that the reader can visualise the object of the poem in a more poetic way.
Sunbeams are better described if they are sent through a crystal chandelier it gives an active depth.
Then spin the chandelier the show goes on in as many ways that the poet can find in his/her mind,
Yours Ian..

S

I think we are all getting real close when all definitions are taken into account

vandiemenspeak

I find imagery popping up in things I read and write, all the time, in a similar way to a certain smell ignite the fuse of synapse and produce very strong, vivid memories. These images stay with you, consume you for a while, even while your in the yard, or doing housework. It's the good use of language, offering sensory triggers that telegraph a response in the readers mind, both present and recalled.that's imagery to me. I don't know if we doing example lines yet, but here's a good one:

'The blood-stained employee of the month,
sobbing on a woolsack of fun fur rugs'
Simon Armitage - from Poundland, new collection - "Unaccompanied"

S

have yet to hear from a few others. If we don't get their ideas by this afternoon I'll go ahead and post what Webster says about it.
In the mean time let's discuss imagery and immersing the reader in a poem. There are other ways other than using imagery to accomplish this but why do ya'll think imagery is so effective in doing so?

S

I think all great poems actually make the reader think they are a part of the poem. Perhaps the use of imagery is so effective because.........................................

wesley snow

a poem is dry and ineffective. Language is the point of poetry. Without elegant language a poem is prose or even less. Imagery is what allows the language to be elegant. Instead of simply telling us what we want to hear it shows us.

S

Agree. poetry without imagery is like football without contact. There Can be poetry without imagery but it then becomes sterile. Now once in a while sterility can actually enforce a poem if the poem's message is sterile........

S

defines imagery :
The formation of mental images, figures or likenesses of things, or of such things collectively.

So everybody's definition was either right or so close to right as to make no difference. i KNEW ya'll were smart.

S

Please post your exercise on stream and hit the workshop tab at bottom of page. In this exercise everybody should critique everybody else's entries.
So here it is : write a single line or verse describing a rock...here's mine

Beneath the covering of moss the stone retired

weirdelf

which is not, after all, addressing poets specifically, to include in the meaning senses beyond sight, especially sound. Wotcha reckon?

S

Implied imagery. in which a single word or two can imply as much as an entire sentence. e.g.
i came upon a house today
though most of it had GONE AWAY. gone away tells about not just the house no longer being there but also the fact it wasn't there due to lapse of time. It implies the passage of years, gradual decay and collapse of the house.
Or the use of the exactly right word instead of an almost right word e.g.. describing the atmosphere where a river spills over an old dam in mists and torrent ."where air the sky and water "KISSED".Then there's the use of a word or phrase to describe something altogether different than the phrase . e.g.. The missing windows in an abandoned factory being called"unwinking eyes".
There's a bunch more but this is supposed to be a participant driven workshop not a lecture from an unqualified would be poet lol.

vandiemenspeak

I'm rushing tgriugh streets like a headless chook, working, but this came to mind:

'We walk where words abound, without a sound, the clock reads two am.'

Perhaps something else will pop in later..will contribute when I can. I tried submission via stream, but appears I'm over quota.
Cheers

Chris

S

Line should be about a rock. We're gonna see how many different ways a simple thing like a rock can be described. Also try putting on stream then punching workshop below entry. this once over rode the one per day thing. If that doesn't work then just put it here/ BTW what the heck is a "chook"?

vandiemenspeak

This is an Autralianism:

noun
1.
Australian. a hen.
2.
Slang. a woman.
interjection (not to be derogatory on my part, it's in the vernacular)

3.
(used as a call for poultry or pigs.)

PS - I will try and post my rocky line in the stream later tonight.

alidzain

I know I'm late but can you add me in, please? Its abit busy here due to the festive season but I'll drop in when I can.

Alid

S

are in Alid, Go ahead and post a single line about a rock . Please put (imagery shop) next to title. You can catch up with this thread as time allows

S

In the mean time let's each give a line or two (any subject) with a bit of indirect imagery ....imagery which with the use of a single word brings to mind multiple images or layer of images.eg :
"where fences are but memories"........then others can tell what They imagine from the words.....The usual, post on stream under shop tab with(imagery shop) next to title

Race_9togo

then think of as many ways as possible to describe that object without explicitly naming it.
Works for me! Biggest problem is words that get to close to the subject, making the indirect imagery direct, if you see what I mean.
Trust me...I have SERIOUS problems with it! :)

wesley snow

Remember, just one stone. Then, two verses of indirect imagery where one word can change the meaning entirely.
Mine is not a good example.

Sparrow

The whole world turned yellow,
There in my view a spotty chin.
I had fallen into a lovely flower
The brat loves butter it would seem..

Wesley has asked for two verses, does he mean lines or Stanzas ????
Yours Ian.T In a dream ZZZzzzz

S

Should be only one or two lines or verser, not stanzas. So choose the two you want to use. The first line you have here tells of autumn in a woods dominated by poplars or perhaps hickory. It also implies a low angles sun and cool weather

Sparrow

Sorry I just had to write a stanza, this is the imagery of being inside a buttercup flower when a child tests another to see if they like butter.
It is total fiction but many children spend hours playing this game.
Maybe I should have condensed it into two lines.
Thanks for your visit to this one, there are times when imagery cannot be understood, probably because the writer is too vague, so the need for more lines becomes the norm.
I wrote about The artist Turner and his picture of the fighting ship, not sure if it was good enough.
As Turner had some beaut colours and visions of near fiction in his pictures, where do we draw the line.
Very interesting subject and so much scope for us all to be individual, but when interpreting writes we must be careful to see the correct picture, if not the poet has not been good enough..
Yours as always Ian

A yellow world inside a flower,
testing the like of butter on a child.

S

Just use this for the next exercise. i also recall the do you like butter thing as a child but didn't make the connection........stan.
But you still owe the shop a shorter exercise lol.......stan

Sparrow

The shorter one was added to the last write but here it is again,

"A yellow world inside a flower,
Testing the like of butter on a child."

Take care out there,
Yours Ian..

S

Yeah I saw that right after my comment. Perhaps I getting too old for this

Sparrow

There ain't a flower that can check your memory but I know a few that can destroy memories La La
Yours Ian

Race_9togo

is mainly visual, since, for me, it is the visual that provokes the strongest emotional reaction when coupled with cadence, rhyme and explanation.
Then again, a single line of intense non-visual sensory perception can really make the emotional content of a poem 'pop', as my daughter would say.
So yes, most probably, imagery is whatever description in a poem that brings forth emotional response from the reader.

S

I expect visual imagery is used more than other types but audible and scents are also powerful in evoking memories. e.g.. The fresh baked bread spread through the house

S

I reckon those who have been AWOL are unlikely to show up now so on to next exercise :
this exercise is just an expansion on the first one. Write a single stanza about a rock and try using a bit of implied as well as overt imagery. *make note of which is the implied imagery. Same posting on stream with (imagery stanza) beside title.
Here goes mine :
As I sit in colored woods
where the green of scattered pines
a rock convinces me I should
remove myself from its sharp tines
* I'm hoping "colored woods" will bring many images to reader's mind. What Does it bring to Your mind?

alidzain

You're the rock which I cling to.
In my hour of need,
your strength remains true,
unyielding through
chill and heat.

Is this acceptable or not?

Alid

S

The discourse between Jess and I had nothing to do with imagery. But it was likely worth having because there Are 2 schools of thought as to whether the use of obscure words is a plus for readers or a negative,
Now you've taken the time to post this comment but have yet to post even the first exercise which is to write a single line about a rock..........stan

S

don't recall ever asking anybody to remove anything from this shop stream. But if you thought it best I'm not going to argue the point

S

You know a rose might be just a rose but they can be indirectly referred to without actually saying rose e.g., "the garden filled with crimson petals". I refuse to believe that a simpleton like me can understand it but you can't. The best thing about indirect or unspoken imagery is that the inferred image can easily be interpreted by the reader as something they are familiar with. I can say "bush" One person says oh yeah, like my blue berry bush and another can say of yeah that area out in the boonies.

lovedly

the garden filled with crimson petals"

do you mean to say
there are no other flowers as crimson
and stan
bush is a dangerous word
you know it too
what it is normally referred to
LOL

Sparrow

Not sure where we are heading with this one or I have lost the directive of the workshop, but here is a few lines that to me are rock solid..

The mountain cried so loud.
It shed its tears in crushing blows.
Scattering all who lived below.
Those who stayed became as stone..

Just now by, Ian..

S

excellent. the mountain which cries with its earth quake then sending boulders downward.Then people becoming stone......most excellent

lovedly

an avalanche
evolved by the wind
hard rocks
hammering climbers below
who merge with ice
and become
solid snow

what an abstract poet like you may say
each reader will interpret it in his own way
stan has only his mind(maybe brain) to play
what of others thoughts has he to say
do all of em bray!

Sparrow

Did you not hear and see that mountain shed all those boulders on that village the other day.
The noise was horrendous and it turned a village of quite a few into a rubble of rocks.

Your avalanche would have been:-

A gentle powder falling
Turning slopes of joy into terror
Many souls turned to Ice
As the earth trembled..
Or something like this???
Take care young Bard and always remember each of us has our own thoughts, and I rarely think others are trying to make me think in one direction unless you go to one of those over bearing church services lol..
Yours as always Ian..

lovedly

I don't want to be a misfit
hence all my poetry here
I have slit

S

To all who have already posted both their assignments while you continue to comment on others' there is something you can do. Think of a poem by a known poet which has good imagery. You will be asked to post it later but this will give you time to decide the poem. It would be easier on all if the poem is not Too long........stan

Eumolpus

Entering this stream a little late, but it does seem to me you don't have to be a linguist to see the connection of those two words. Imagery is the imagination using words to evoke a feeling or mental picture . Sometimes used commonly - "industrial park" . Sometimes taking the association of words to the limit- "scent of the moon".
I had not seen anyone make this connection of the two words, which are connected as are yin and yang. One cannot exist without the other. "the palm trees bend to the wind" is fact. "the palm trees bend like grazing giraffes" is imagery (+imagination)

S

but the imagination thing Is important because it's often a poet trying to transfer something they imagined to the mind of the reader. And on the other side there's the reader whose imagination is kick started by the poet's words. Some might argue that the effectiveness of a poem could be gauged by how closely these two imaginings come to matching...........stan

weirdelf

We've checked this out before. As it is for education purposes, not commercial, the only thing is a courtesy to provide publication reference (title, publisher, date) for living, published poets.

vandiemenspeak

She, held a stone to keep it warm,
he secreted it in pocket,
A carbon gift, fossilised ,
he thought it's hardness may not hide it
The softness of that other stone,
he kept in locket left alone
In time, will all things petrify,
will all be deep earth bone?

S

Begin by writing a single line about a rock. Post it on stream. with (imagery shop) next to title , if you have a title. Then be sure to click on workshop at bottom of page so it won't count as a daily poem.

Sparrow

She Walks in Beauty

BY LORD BYRON (GEORGE GORDON)

She walks in beauty, like the night
Of cloudless climes and starry skies;
And all that’s best of dark and bright
Meet in her aspect and her eyes;
Thus mellowed to that tender light
Which heaven to gaudy day denies.

One shade the more, one ray the less,
Had half impaired the nameless grace
Which waves in every raven tress,
Or softly lightens o’er her face;
Where thoughts serenely sweet express,
How pure, how dear their dwelling-place.

And on that cheek, and o’er that brow,
So soft, so calm, yet eloquent,
The smiles that win, the tints that glow,
But tell of days in goodness spent,
A mind at peace with all below,
A heart whose love is innocent!

Lord Byron -- 1788 - 1824

Sparrow

Imagery in poetry is what the words of the poem make the reader 'see' in their imagination. it is the colors, sounds, and sometimes feelings evoked by the poem.

Alfred Tennyson
Alfred Tennyson was another poet who made use of imagery.
See if you can get a clear picture of the summer night he describes in this poem
Summer Night:
Now sleeps the crimson petal, now the white;
Nor waves the cypress in the palace walk;
Nor winks the gold fin in the porphyry font:
The firefly wakens: waken thou with me.
Now droops the milk-white peacock like a ghost,
And like a ghost she glimmers on to me.
Now lies the Earth all Danaë to the stars,
And all thy heart lies open unto me.
Now slides the silent meteor on, and leaves
A shining furrow, as thy thoughts in me.
Now folds the lily all her sweetness up,
And slips into the bosom of the lake
So fold thyself, my dearest, thou, and slip
Into my bosom and be lost in me.

.
Jane we all use imagery to show how our views are on the world and the things we write of..
The words we use are fiction but used to portray a feeling or a picture to the reader.
This is where the poet becomes an artist.
I hope this extract brings home the way imagery is used in poetry from the old masters of poetry.
Take care young Lady and fear not,
the chill breath of the night
or the soft light of the moon
Just believe that we can tell stories
That will enhance the mind and imagination
To see more than the poet has written..
Yours as always with the touch of Angels wings to brush away the clouds of doubt, and that they bring you the knowledge as reflected in a perfect mirror,
Ian..xx

jane210660

Thanks for the lesson in imagery.
I'm not sure why you needed to spell it out for me, given that most of my poems are steeped in it, but the Tennyson was nice.
Jx

S

I'll not have this become a battle field. Jane is perfectly capable, as she has shown, of taking care of herself. In the event anybody needs reprimands due to behavior in this shop I think that's My job.........stan

S

these thing have a way of getting out of hand....onward to better imagery!

S

We'll be getting to using the right amount of imagery a bit later. You are correct as there Is such thing as too much imagery which can make a poem a bit too "flowery". now in the past I think flowery was what a lot of people wanted but times have changed ....unlike me who has Never changed lol

S

Mountains grow steeper it seems to me
and the brooks keep getting wider
while waves get wilder in the sea

all these could be hints of advancing age

S

Had a tough day. Overdid it with healing knee and now paying for it. I'm gonna turn in early and see ya'll in the morn. I'm sure ya'll can keep things going without me anyway lol. "nite.......stan

S

Neopoet.com. Problem is the shop teacher who handles this kind of stuff has a lot of trouble getting it across lol. PS the same idjit will be doing a using the right word later.....run!

S

We're about to get into the meat of this shop.We will now post a poem by a known poet on stream. Not everybody at once! We will do it 4 at a time in the same order as participant's list . So for now let's post from Weirdelf, remark,Wes and scribbler. Be sure to put (imagery shop poem) beside title and hit the workshop tab so that it won't count as your daily entry. We need to all comment on these poems' imagery and how it affects us (or doesn't). We will reserve 2 days after posting for comment then move to next 4 people. Be sure to acknowledge the original author at end of poem..........stan

S

I'm going to give each new post 2 days or so to gather comments. Then when the next 4 people post their chosen poems the previous 4 will be required to remove the imagery from the poems They posted. This way we'll have 4 new poems and at least 4 "stripped " poems to think about at any given time...........stan

weirdelf

perhaps detract from the verisimilitude of your ideological hermeneutic racionations notionally delivered incalficationisticly to render a frisson of determinism to deconstructed inductive evocations of rubiconic aneuristic visio-cortical manifestations fulgourously threatening to manifest in cognitively dssonant expressions of hermeneuticly revisionist dirty poems.

S

Just Jess and Me having a vocabulary contest lol. "Course he majored in literature and I in construction engineering lol. Now I'll need to work the words Doric, corinthian and entablature into some poem

S

Now time to remove imagery to see how bare these poems are without it.Scribbler will strip remark's poem and remark will strip weird elf's poem who will strip wesley's who will strip scribbler's. Now it's pretty apparent that in stripping out All imagery the poems will be totally destroyed so if needed in order to maintain readability Some imagery can remain but leave as little as possible.
Post the original on stream with stripped version below it. put (stripped poem) beside title and post no earlier than July 4..............stan

S

But there's a day or two leeway. And you don't think this shop is up to being splash pool (he asks with bewildered look) lol. Gotta do Something to stretch this out to about a month ....now on to stripping your poem.....stan

S

Alright. Time to strip down some more poems. Chevyvent strip down T.Harmonee's poem; T.Harmonee strip down jane 210660's poem ; jane strip down Rhiannon's poem, Rhiannon strip down Chevyvent's poem. Please put (imagery stripped version) next to title. When posting also put the original poem on top with author's name then the stripped down version beneath it...thanks.........stan

S

While the posters and stripper are busy we can discuss the notion of there being such thing as too much imagery. To get the ball rolling I'll say that since the late 1800's the amount of imagery deemed acceptable appears to be dropping. Why might this be?

vandiemenspeak

My response is this: Well, imagery didn't really go away (discounting the cooler shift post world war one) - yes, imagery did tail off after the end of the 1800s - and with the rise of the modernists, imagery was displaced by dense allusions, and intellectual change, as with Elliot, that arguably required more cerebral 'linking' - although the images were still there. before that, there were the more 'Genteeel' poets, employing overly generic or simplistic imagery, but then, think what that directly led to to, the imagism, literally the movement of writers like Pound, where :
"An 'Image' is that which presents an intellectual and emotional complex in an instant of time." - and arguably, Imagism/imagery was back on the table. Then you had the likes of Lowell and Gould, and a host of others, image laden.
Across the pond, through time, English poets, and Irish, Scots, think Yeats, think Larkin and the stark muscular imagery of nature: Hughes, were all apparent. So my point would be that imagism /imagery didn't really 'go' anywhere, it was just as necessary - it just changed to fit the shape of a new poetic paradigm especially in a post world war one world - where it was displaced for a while, but the, i would argue, continued and continues to flourish, discuss! Or shoot me down, with reasonable arguments.

S

Heck I was just hoping somebody would say that poetry isn't quite as "flowery" as it was at one time........That being said do you think it might have anything to do with the rise of free verse where the "beat" doesn't matter quite as much and adjective aren't needed to maintain the count......stan

jane210660

Stan I haven't seen a poem from T Harmonee or Chevyant yet.
Jx

jane210660

Stan I haven't seen a poem from T Harmonee or Chevyant yet.
Jx

S

OK since we've lost two participants the new order for stripping (poems only lol) is as follows :
Jane will strip Rhia's poem; Rhia will strip Lonely heart's ;Lonely hearts will strip Eumoplus' poem; Eumoplus will strip Jane's poem.

Due to circumstances beyond my control I'm going to be gone 2-3 days. Ya'll just continue on. If you have questions just refer them to wesley...........stan

Rhiannon1010

I seem to be incredibly stupid and useless at following instructions because I just realized I stripped Jane's. However, I am also unable to fine lonely hearts poem. I'll take down my stripping of Janes poem to give eumoplus a chance to do it.

alidzain

I might not be an active participant due to other responsibilities which just come up but I'll check in when I can.

Alid

S

Back from being AWOL. I'll catch up quickly and proffer new assignments today. If anybody else other than Rhia is having problems let me know ASAP........stan

S

Will the following please post their poem by a known poet. Don't forget to put (imagery poem) next to title and to hit "imagery shop" tag at bottom of page:
lovedly, swamp-witch, Rula, Vandiemenspeak

New stripping assignments:
Rhia please strip lovely's poem when it's posted. Eumolpus strip Queen S.L.O.W. 's poem. Queen S.L.O.W. please strip Sparrow's poem. Sparrow please strip Rhia's poem.

Sparrow

I have submitted the stripped poem of Rhia's but for some reason couldn't get it on stream.
I have completed the words about the picture in a quirky way hope you like it.
I think that it needs a good look at the artists painting first and during the reading of this one,
Take care, Yours as always Ian..

S

I'm no tech guy so all I can suggest is to try again and if it still won't post contact either jess or the site bug people.
As to the contest it's the judge you want to hope likes it not me lol

Sparrow

I worry not about the judges, I have loved to write the two pieces,
One I have written for Rhia which I would love to have you read and comment and the other is the Painting by a known artist where I have put a twist in there that in some way is serious but just quirky..
Let me know what you think about them.
Yours as always Ian..
PS:- In the painting of the raining city there is a bridge and there is a deep red blotch just under the bridge, just a wild imagination, lol..
I am going to Cornwall for a week from the 14th to 21st of July. Couldn't waste that second prize could I ?? LOL

S

I will do so asap. I have a pulled back muscle at the moment which makes sitting at comp chair fairly painful so it might be a few days. I'm beginning to think my warranty has expired lol.......stan

Sparrow

You are lucky you is past your resale date so have to stay with all those around you lol.
Hope your back recovers soon, take care, maybe not so young woodsman??
Yours Ian..

S

Prescribed pain pills are doing wonders as back recoups but they tend to make me drowsy.......stan

jane210660

On the last message from Stan, I thought I was supposed to be stripping down Rhianna's poem?
Here is the instruction

Next "Strippers"

Alright. Time to strip down some more poems. Chevyvent strip down T.Harmonee's poem; T.Harmonee strip down jane 210660's poem ; jane strip down Rhiannon's poem, Rhiannon strip down Chevyvent's poem. Please put (imagery stripped version) next to title. When posting also put the original poem on top with author's name then the stripped down version beneath it...thanks.........stan

He reassigned some poems, but I'm still doing Rhia's.

S

I've already requested Ian to switch and to withdraw that request now would cause even more confusion I think. The imagery shop leader should be shot for having messed this up

jane210660

Here are the instructions from Stan's thread after he reassigned.

OK since we've lost two participants the new order for stripping (poems only lol) is as follows :
Jane will strip Rhia's poem; Rhia will strip Lonely heart's ;Lonely hearts will strip Eumoplus' poem; Eumoplus will strip Jane's poem.

Sparrow

We will have to ask Stan what is going on this was the message I read so didn't bother with any other an went ahead and stripped Rhias Poem are there two Rhias..
New assignments
Will the following please post their poem by a known poet. Don't forget to put (imagery poem) next to title and to hit "imagery shop" tag at bottom of page:
lovedly, swamp-witch, Rula, Vandiemenspeak
New stripping assignments:
Rhia please strip lovely's poem when it's posted. Eumolpus strip Queen S.L.O.W. 's poem. Queen S.L.O.W. please strip Sparrow's poem. Sparrow please strip Rhia's poem.
Not sure what the hell is going on are people changing their minds.
It takes a lot of my time to work on these things so I will see what Happens next, maybe I just have to strip..
Love to you as always, Yours Ian..

jane210660

through the entire thread and found your instruction recently.
There is only one Rhia on the course though.
As you say, it takes a lot of time and I'm half way through, hence not yet posted.
Was Rula in your quartet so as to speak? I wonder if Stan's mixed up Rula and Rhia.
Either way I don't see why you should do another, or me for that matter.
Jxx
PS. Yeup it looks like he's mixed up Rula and Rhia.
Stan, over to you to sort out.

QueenS.L.O.W.TheAlmost-Poet

Sorry I'm so behind, I just got back from a trip to Hawaii, and I did not bring my computer. What am I supposed to do? What does 'strip a poem' mean?

wesley snow

Post a short piece by a known poet that you think is loaded with imagery, then we're going to strip the imagery from it in a rewrite of the poem. Be sure to post to the Stream like a regular poem with "imagery workshop" in the title and give credit to the author.

jane210660

We were doing it in small groups of four at a time as Stan asked. The idea being not to flood the stream with published poets work.
I think you might have missed that Wesley with your computer being down and all.
I have to strip Rhianna's poem down, better get on with it. Jx

jane210660

It would appear you have asked both Sparrow and I to strip the same poem.
Any particular reason why?

S

Will blame prescribed pain pills for making me stupid(er). About the time I came back from unavoidable absence I realized some had gone awol. I also sprained my back and had to go on pain pills. So between trying to quickly reassign folks to make up for folks going awol and getting a bit fuzzy from pills I obviously made a mistake. I apologize. Since Ian is going on a trip and won't be back for a few days I'll let you stay as you are and reassign him when he returns........stan

jane210660

Ian has done all the work and it takes a long time.
I was slow completing the task, so let Ian's work stand, particularly as he's going away.
Re assign me.
Jx

S

First I apologize for the recent screw up in assigning strippers. Hopefully it is now straightened out.

Now, would everybody who has not already posted a poem by a favorite author do so now. Don't forget to put (imagery shop poem) next to title and to hit the workshop tab before posting.Thanks......stan

S

For those who have already completed your assignments...have you ever thought about how much a change in imagery can change a poem? Hint : we all better be thinking about this lol

S

Editing is done by usually replacing a word or words to make a poem better. For shop purposes the poem is being stripped not only to remove most imagery but also for another reason to be revealed later bwaa ha ha

S

Will Loved please strip swamp witches poem and swamp witch strip Rula's and Rula strip Vandiemenspeak's poem and vandiemenspeak strip lovely's poem. Please be sure to post the original version above the stripped version..........stan

S

Now we finally get down to the nitty gritty of this shop. Have you ever really thought about how much imagery can affect a poem? It can totally change the location, emotion and even the entire meaning of it. For example let's take the first few line's of Frost's "A Late Walk":
original=
When I go up through the mowing field
the headless aftermath
new imagery applied=
When I go down through the hay field
The dark green of my path

The original 2 lines set up the time as either summer or late spring with the reader expecting a tale of harvest. In the changed two lines the reader is likely to think early spring with new growth and a tale of renewal. And the only thing which changed was the imagery which sets up all that follows.

In our next exercise we are going to put this into use by taking the poems we've stripped down and adding different imagery in order to affect a diametric change in the poems. Be thinking of this as we await the last prior assignments' completion.........BTW feel free to comment about this on this thread......stan

jane210660

Welcome.
It's not my shout as this is Scribbler's workshop. But, the workshop is well underway and obviously you haven't been around for the most of it.
I would suggest sitting this one out, you can easily follow its progress and see what's happening and then perhaps join the next workshop at the beginning
Welcome to Neopoet, it's a great site. Looking forward to reading your poetry.
Cheers Jane

S

to do so but this shop is in its final phase now. I'll likely be running another Imagery shop in the future and would welcome your participation then........stan BTW welcome to neopoet.

sewie smalls

there she goes again
usually her coarse and brittle self
scattering across the paved high
completely mindless of who saw.

i hope this is good

jane210660

Sorry, not following you.
You say 'hope this is good'
Good for what?
Looking at title, it says rock.
Do you mean the part of the workshop we did at the beginning?
We are well passed that point, did you not read my earlier comment.
I would wait for the workshop leader to accept you on course or not before you jump in.
As I said, I think you are a bit too late.
Jx

sewie smalls

im asking for a review or you can tell me what you think about the poem

jane210660

here is not the place to do that.
This is just for the specific workshop on imagery.
If you want to post your poem for comment then post it to the stream.
You can post up to one poem every 24 hours and people may then offer you critique.
You are also expected to read the work of other poets and offer your critique. It's a two way traffic arrangement.
Cheers Jx

S

In order to show the power of imagery in poetry we are now going to each take the poem which we stripped down and insert imagery in such a way as to change the original poem's message to the opposite of the original.I am aware that the actual message might not be able to be changed but we should strive to at least change something like the location or time of year.
First four to do this are Scribbler, wesley, weird elf and remark. Please post only the original with the rewritten version below it. As usual please put (imagery final assignment)next to poem. And please, nobody post until they're asked so that each person will have time to gather comments on their work..........stan
PS.If you want you can post the stripped version between the original and rewritten poem

Rhiannon1010

Lovedly never posted a poem, so I never got the chance to strip a poem. Shall I just sit this round out or strip a poem of my own choosing to use in this round?

S

Hmmm...... good question lol. Give me a day to see why loved hasn't posted. If he doesn't come through I'll give you a poem. You will have a choice whether the poem is by Frost or that much lesser known poet who goes by "scribbler" lol

lovedly

.......................

weirdelf

you are asked not to post it to the thread of the workshop,
but as a poet to the stream with the workshop selected
For fucks sake, lovedly, how many times do you need to be told?

wesley snow

What is the name of your known author's poem. QueenS.L.O.Wth needs to know and I told her I would find out. She needs to strip it.

S

can pull up Ian's page then look down his list of poem to the one which has (imagery poem) next to it. I'd tell her but this is her pennons for going AWOL lol. BTW i feel a bit like a dirty old man each time I tell a lady to strip

Sparrow

The poet is:- Ode to a Nightingale By "John Keats" I put it in the heading when I streamed the poem ???
Hope all is well with you,
Take care, Yours Ian.T

S

Would Chevyvent, T. Harmonee, Jane and This please post the rewrite of the poems they stripped. Remember to use imagery to male a diametric change in the poem. Also to post the original poem above your rewrite and don't forget to put (imagery shop rewrite) next to title.....thanks

S

I had intended to try to fit in using the right amount of imagery in this shop but think it would make this shop even longer than it will turn out being. I'll save this subject for short shop of its own.......stan

jane210660

Stan I must apologise, I misread and indeed missed the final instruction. I thought you meant i hadn't posted my stripped version.
I will now re write with my own imagery.
Sorry, I was being a klutz.
Again.....!
xxx

S

No problemo. But for penance you must write 2 poems about how handsome Carolina guys are lol (just kidding),,,,,,,,,,stan

S

Would lonlyheartsclub,Eumolpus, Queen SLOW and sparrow now post a rewrite of the poems ya'll stripped down now? Please remember to put (imagery shop final rewrite) next to title and to use new imagery to change poem in as opposite direction as possible.

S

Would loverly, swamp witch and Rula now post their rewrites of the poem they stripped. Please don't forget to put something like (final rewrite of imagery shop) next to title. Also keep in mind we want to change something about the poem by just changing imagery. thanks........stan

S

Will everybody who has not yet posted their rewrite of the poem they stripped please do so now. Don't forget to put something like(final rewrite imagery shop) next to title and to post original poem above the rewrite. Thanks.......stan

S

Hello everybody. I'm taking this opportunity to thank everybody for participating in a workshop which might have been a bit more difficult than either you or I expected lol. But regardless (and in spite of my mix up) I hope ya'll had fun and maybe even learned a little about how to use imagery to good effect. NOW is the time to tell me about things I could have done differently. Or better or whatever. Might help me run future shops better. Again, thanks to all.......stan

Rula

Sorry it took me so long to reply here. I just wanted to thank you for the effort and the time you offered despite life difficulties. I don'thave any suggestions and I don't think I would have done it better anyway.
Again thank you.

S

Thank you. I guess it was just bad luck that when I was gone a few days that Wes was also out and the shop lost momentum......stan

S

Could have been run better but the participants, I think, did a good job on a subject which has few set rules

Description: A participant driven shop dealing with most aspects of imagery in poetry

Leader: Stan Holliday (scribbler)
Moderator(s): Wesley Snow

Objectives: To get poets more comfortable with using imagery to improve on poetry

Level of expertise: Open to all

Subject matter: We will practice using differing imagery starting with a single line then building up to entire poems. There will be a discussion to begin with and toward the end examine known poetry with imagery remove to show how great the difference can be