S
By scribbler, 2 February, 2015
Participants
scribbler
judyanne
wesley snow
Rula
Sparrow
weirdelf
vandiemenspeak
AMOGELANG MOKOBANE
alidzain
Skill level
Olympic Pool
Date
-
Short description
We will begin with a discussion of the "classic" definition of pastoral poetry then move on to why it's not relevant to most of today's readers. We will then move on to how to write in the style and still be relevant to this day and age.
judyanne

I love workshops
I have a heavy roster at work coming up, but I will be here as often as I am able
Love judy
xxx

S

A chance for revenge for your torturing me with sonnets (Just kidding). You will be a most welcome addition.....stan

S

We'll discuss the dated as well as contemporary definitions of pastoral. Then we'll concentrate on the type pastoral which modern readers can relate to

weirdelf

I can't believe I am so incompetent in this field since I was a hippy for many years. But then again I've also been a punk, a trendy, a hard-line political activist and general ratbag, so I may be excused.

S

It will be good to have you on board and don't worry about gnashing your teeth . This is Not going to be about some shepherd sitting around watching sheep lol

Sparrow

The great Elf has realised that the toadstool he sits on could be part of the Pastoral scene, so if he can with his Kookaburra join in, then me and my magic forest can also take part lol.
Just pop my name on the list, have a great day out there, by the way is a cave pastoral ????
Yours Ian

Sparrow

I must have been tired, I meant Gyrating as in a flat spin lol, I am sure we should get a larger toadstool for him with safety bars around the top, then we wont have to worry about him so Mucking Fuch.
But will await for him to poke his head out of my VDU and I'll soon let him know who the boss is.
You two take care out there, yours, Ian..
Typo's is rampant that's more than what I is lol

weirdelf

how best to describe him? Do you know Angry Anderson from the Aussie band "Rose Tattoo""
http://www.2st.com.au/charles-maxwell/79495-5-july-happy-birthday-angry…

Well he is better looking than that but similar built, stature but different nature. He is from the Western suburbs of Sydney which can be very rough place and he overcame the anti-intellectual snobbery of such places and self-taught, despite not much formal education. He is a fucking gem and an inspiration.
I did manage to embarrass the shit out oh when we saw the second 'Lord of the rings" movie together. The sight of a dead elf and I totally lost it. Not just quiet weeping, loud sobbing bursts of real crying. Real Aussie Westie men do not show emotion.
He forgave me as soon as the movie was over, but fuck that scene hurt! Beautiful, immortal elves do not die!.

S

We will begin the discussion by breaking this down into 3 discussions about the title of this shop because all three things will be incorporated into it.

So we begin with the word Effective adj.
The dictionary defines this as" producing a decided,decisive or desired effect ; the power to produce as effect." On the surface this is pretty bland but when applied to poetry it's an important aspect. Almost all poetry written is done so in an effort to affect the reader in some way.The writer might not realize he/she is trying to do so but why else write if not to effect something within the reader? I'll start a list now of thing which a writer might want to bring about in a reader:
1 To begin with the writer wants to be read so a catchy title is needed. (but that's another workshop lol)
2.Writer might want to furnish a physical description of something he/she saw
3.he might want to relay a tale
4. perhaps the goal is to induce an emotion within the reader
5.....As part the the discussion now ya'll add other things which you might want to convey in a poem

How does one write in order to effectively convey an intent to the reader? In my opinion the first thing a poem has to accomplish in order to be effective is that it be memorable. If the poem is quickly forgotten how can it be truly effective? This is one of the mainsprings of poetry..to be remembered. Well enough of me running my mouth so let's hear your additions to the things a writer might want to relay to a reader and how a poem can be made memorable (and if you have ideas on titles that can be done also).

vandiemenspeak

I'm with Kerouac on this one (although it's a long time since I read him) - I think the essence is in the instinctive use of language about the things that are staring you in the face, be it a corn field, a busker or a race riot.
This isn't to say that you can't be formal, or use form, or for that matter go back and revise and polish. If it's a pastoral scene in the contemporary world, then that "telepathic shock" of recognition in the reader is the key thing, in my opinion..it's something that they should be able to recognize with the same immediacy that you did. Perhaps the language choice might seem a little unorthodox in some cases, but the value of the poem as a natural, unforced creation is the key thing here IMHO.

My two cents! (typo fixed - better keep reading ;) )

S

I agree that natural sounding language flow is best. Convoluted "Yoda Speak" which is so often used to maintain rhyme is a distraction and should be avoided. Also one is better off writing from actual experiences because memory contains a lot more realistic details (imagery) than imagination usually does

judyanne

Please don't generalise, it really annoys me
Just because you use reverse syntax to assist with rhyme does not mean it is acceptable to a serious poet :).... there we find the true poet - the one who aims to use rhyme without it sounding contrived... and there are many
Love judy
xxx

Rula

Rula

10 years 2 months ago

the poet should have a good grasp of what he wants to write about or even better has gone through the experience him/herself.

S

Much easier to write about an actual experience than an imagined one because memories are filled with the details needed to express good imagery. This isn't to say that a person who has always lived in a city (for instance) Can't wind up writing effective poetry dealing with rural living but he/she would have a harder time doing so.......stan

wesley snow

1. The poem can be shocking (violent, sexual, over the top in other ways).
2. The poem can convey an otherwise unknown or unthought of truth. An epiphany.
3. The poem can be excruciatingly beautiful. Such lovely language that the subject gets lost.
4. Or perhaps it simply says in an elegant way something everyone is thinking anyway, but don't know how to say.
There are only four. What else my friends?

S

Shock value can indeed make a poem memorable. But is it really the shock alone or is it the way the shock is presented? As to epiphany, that can also be memorable and thus effective but the effectiveness is likely to only be applicable to those who have not already experienced the same epiphany. Beauty is pretty much timeless. But one must be a bit careful lest Too much beauty becomes perceived in a "run on sentence manner". I think of these 4 methods you have suggested perhaps the best is the last....and most difficult lol. Thanks for your thoughts on this

weirdelf

besides violence or sexuality.
Present radical political ideologies or religious perspectives. These can also come under the second point, an otherwise unknown or unthought of truth. An epiphany.

S

One would think that abomination called ISIS would have produced a flood of shocking poetry by now wouldn't you? I think you are correct in agreeing with wes that revealing an epiphany is extremely effective especially when combined with saying something in a new way.

This brings up a branch discussion. Do any here think shock value poetry melds well with pastoral writing?

S

have written a few dealing with clear cutting and apparently not handled it right judging by lack of response....hmmm...it might be that I was writing about it on too small a scale to provide the shock.

Sparrow

I would hate to Drone on,
but it did a great job.
It killed the Yob
IS leader is dead
or so I am told.
Now I sleep well
In my bed

Sparrow

Only when I come across things like a Sonnet or request to write a piece in correct form do I spend more than an hour to write a poem or piece of writing.
The words I put to paper or type here are instant and flow through from mind to keyboard as I go along.
Not sure what fault there is in my thinking but this is the way things have always been, sometimes an idea from a few hours before or something triggers my writing.
Not sure what you would call it, I use to write for people in the odd bar on beer mats or scrap paper and a few other places.
The Pastoral piece will also be an excerpt from my instant view, no idea as to what yet as I have to wait till it is asked for.
To me as long as this new write brings many feelings from out there into the space we have allotted it then I shall be pleased, maybe those that write with me or through me have control, who knows.
I shall wait till there is a time for writing before I tap the keys, Yours Ian..
PS:- since putting this comment on I have written and posted the "Choice of Doors" if you see what I mean..

S

everything I write is put down quickly in very raw form. This is done in order to capture the inspiration before it slips away. So you're doing so is not unusual but what I do next is mentally edit as I go while posting the poem which I find to be helpful........Now you say "new write brings many feelings from out there..."Do you mean your feelings or feelings you convey to others?

vandiemenspeak

I wouldn't mind having a crack at something contemporary and pastoral.Anything, do I need to do anything extra to join, besides this note?

Thanks,

Chris.

S

You are Not too late. Just be sure to read the discussion up to this opine so you will catch up. I'll list you as a shop member no. Always good to see new folks joining in and if you have questions feel free to ask........stan

S

We've not yet discussed whether a particular form 9free verse, western classic, concrete, ect.)might be more effective in a particular type of poetry. e.g.. A lot of folks think the best form to write love poems in is a sonnet. Let's hear your thoughts on this then we'll move on to defining contemporary .....stan

Rula

Rula

10 years 2 months ago

I am still waiting for your sonnet. )
You've started you workshop before cleaning your plates here in Sonnet's workshop :)

S

I am still dealing with some bad news which is making it difficult to write Anything much less concentrate on an old nemesis such as (((shudder)))) sonnets. I'll do my best to write Something in the next few days even if it's (likely) wrong.........stan PS I've not even prepared anything for this shop or the Feb contest

S

am used to following through on my obligations and joining a shop counts as such. I am fully aware of my shortcomings in meter and sonnets are likely the form with the strictest meter demands so I hope by tackling them I'll become a bit less lax in the flow of my usual stuff

S

It's not too late to catch up and join in the discussion. Just be sure to get caught up with the discussion asap. I'll add you now. If you have questions just holler...stan

Sparrow

Will wait for your instruction as to when we should post a poem

S

It will be a while yet but we will be trying a few smaller exercises as we go along before doing an entire poem

Sparrow

My wife says I should have been put out to grass years ago, now you want me to write about it, OK I will conform and wait LOL, Teach me you did!
Yours Sparrow

S

You misunderstood your wife. She said you should put out the "grass" lol.

S

Let's work with titles for a bit.
Pretend you are writing a poem about.....hmmmm........arriving back home after a long trip with a subtext of the journey representing life and arriving home representing the approaching end. What would you title the poem? {this deals with making a poem effective}

Rula

Rula

10 years 2 months ago

"Journeying Back Home" not sure though which is more effective, a catchy title that eludes the reader or an ordinary title that tells the reader what he is going to read about. Most often I choose the second unless my piece is so clear. I think a balance between the two is good if we can come up with one.

Sparrow

"The Return" would be a reasonable title but it would be nice to make it more grand or pointed so that others read the rest and not just the title,
Yours Ian

S

Sometime a title can be used to alert the reader that there might be more than a single level hidden within a poem.

S

Very good. Try moving the apostrophe to the end to make it plural possessive. Gives a stronger hint that a subtext is there lol

judyanne

that is a particularly good idea
I would rather find the hidden text within the poem, not the title
It is the test of the ability of the poet to be subtle in the subtext
To me, that particular hint in the title screams insecurity
Just my opinion
Love judy
xxx

S

I keep thinking of my old poem "Bridges). On surface, just a description of a guy on his way to repair a small bridge. But even with the hint of making the title plural, a lot of folks never realized the real message was in the subtext. the poem is about bridges between people, not places. Of course a hint at subtext can be placed elsewhere but we Are talking about titles in this instance and how they can be used to increase effectiveness in a poem. Obviously the best increase in effectiveness caused by a title is making the reader pause and read the poem. So how about other ways to make a title more effective?........PS we will proceed on to "contemporary" tonight or tomorrow at latest

wesley snow

And Stan... if you want something with strict format... wait until my workshop on The Ballade. If you had any hair you would lose it. It's the hardest thing I've ever had to write.

As to pastoral form... I'm the true traditionalist and don't much care for Whitman or Frost. I would prefer classical western forms used. I think almost anything would work. Kyrielles, Triolets, Sonnets... anything, but I would see structure and not so much verso libre.

S

One of the things this shop and I hope to do is expand on(and maybe change) the definition of what "pastoral" means to modern readers. It is my opinion that a pastoral poem can take place in an urban or suburban setting......it's the emotion it leaves with the reader which really counts. But I'll get into this deeper a bit later because I hear bow strings tightening from those who are now going to want to shoot me for saying this lol

Sparrow

"Awaking" would be a good title to draw some poets in as they will need to know what one is awaking to,
Yours Ian..

Sparrow

Some people out there find it hard to come home, as there are many reasons for going home the titles are also many, can't suggest one or two as they would only fit a very small number of poets,
Coming home, from Exodus to a man just out of jail to dying and so many things, there's no way to be exact, the themes will be so different.
I think that it will be the poet that must again decide what a good title is, but we have a comment part in this and it is asked for sometimes in streaming a poem, between infinity and reality.
Yours Ian.T

S

Contemporary : happening, existing, living or coming into being during the same period of time ; marked by characteristics of the present period of time---------is that stale and dry enough for you? lol. Like many definitions this leaves a lot undefined. The main thing is answering when "this" period of time is. Is it during the last 2 years? 10 years, 20 years? Just how far back does "contemporary go?
I like to think of contemporary as having occurred during my lifetime. But I've been around a while so some of the things which occurred during my youth likely seem ancient history to folks becoming adults now. So by my definition "contemporary" is an undetermined thing. So while we ponder what contemporary means in relation to poetry (and feel free to offer your own definition) lets use my definition and have a bit of fun.

To show the wide variance in what contemporary might mean, let's write the first stanza of the first piece of real poetry you can recall (nursery rhymes don't count).

S

Robert Burns :

Is there for honest poverty
that hinges his head,an' a' that;
the coward slave - we pass him by,
we dare the poor for a' that
for a' that an' a' that
our toils obscure an' a' that
the rank is but the guinea's stamp
the man's the goad for a' that

***Burns is widely criticized for writing in his own country's dialect. a' = all, an' = and

( bet ya'll thought I'd use something by Frost didn't you lol)

vandiemenspeak

Three main dilatects still in use in Scotland, Gaelic (in remote parts and Western Islands, such as Mull, where they liberally switch between Gaelic and English in shops to make insulting tourists easier ;).., Scots/Scotch (the Haggissized version of English - of which there are a number of variations, which I think Burns varied in usage) and of course there's still English spoken in a Scots accent - for a' that is worth ya ken:

http://www.scotslanguage.com/Scots_Dialects_uid117/The_Main_Dialects_of…

judyanne

knew it as a tot, before even, my first nursery rhyme - which I cannot remember - lol

The wind was a torrent of darkness among the gusty trees,
The moon was a ghostly galleon tossed upon cloudy seas,
The road was a ribbon of moonlight over the purple moor,
And the highwayman came riding—
Riding—riding—
The highwayman came riding, up to the old inn-door.

.

judyanne

In this case you are talking to a senior citizen... we didn't have such a thing as free verse when I was an egg...

And, I have to say, you are being foolish in saying a poem has to rhyme to be memorable, just because a rhyming one is the first I remember
The question you asked was, what was our first poem memory
My mother would not've gained a tot's attention with a free form poem, even if she knew one...

poetry does not have to rhyme to be memorable
Rhyme helps to remember it, but remembering something does not make it memorable..
memorable and rememberable are not necessarily mutually inclusive

i know many poems that I think are memorable, but I don't always remember the whole poem ' free form or rhyme

Usually it is only part of a poem that sticks in the mind as memorable and rememberable

There, I took the bite, but you annoyed me again

love judy
xxx

judyanne

For some reason known only to her, my mother read neither the bible, nor Shakespeare, to me as a bedtime story, when I was a tot - lol

Winnie the Pooh, yes
and the second poem I remember is...

Three cheers for Pooh.
For who?
For Pooh.
Why, what did he do?
I thought you knew, he saved his friend from a wetting. Three cheers for Bear.
For where?
For Bear. He couldn't swim, but he rescued him.
He rescued who?
Oh listen, do. I'm talking of Pooh.
Of who?
Of Pooh.
I'm sorry, I keep forgetting.

Well, Pooh was a bear of enormous brain.
Of enormous what?
Well, he ate a lot. And I don't know if he could swim or not, but he managed to float in a sort of a boat.
In a sort of a what?
Well, a sort of a pot. So let's give him three hearty wishes.
So let's give him three hearty whiches?
And let's give him three hearty cheers, and hope he'll be with us for years and years, and grow in health and wisdom and riches. Three cheers for Pooh.
For who?
For Pooh. Three cheers for Bear.
For where?
For Bear. Three cheers for the wonderful Winnie the Pooh
Please tell me somebody, what did he do?

and yes, it too is rhyme... but goodness me, I was only two....
xxx

xxx

weirdelf

I do not admit that for a second, for ani religion, even Buddhism

wesley snow

I was made to show off reading this at parties when I was seven. It took me a long time to come back to it. Consider it an opportunity to have another read.

To be, or not to be, that is the question—
Whether 'tis Nobler in the mind to suffer
The Slings and Arrows of outrageous Fortune,
Or to take Arms against a Sea of troubles,
And by opposing, end them? To die, to sleep—
No more; and by a sleep, to say we end
The Heart-ache, and the thousand Natural shocks
That Flesh is heir to? 'Tis a consummation
Devoutly to be wished. To die, to sleep,
To sleep, perchance to Dream; Aye, there's the rub,
For in that sleep of death, what dreams may come,
When we have shuffled off this mortal coil,
Must give us pause. There's the respect
That makes Calamity of so long life:
For who would bear the Whips and Scorns of time,
The Oppressor's wrong, the proud man's Contumely,
The pangs of despised Love, the Law’s delay,
The insolence of Office, and the Spurns
That patient merit of the unworthy takes,
When he himself might his Quietus make
With a bare Bodkin? Who would these Fardels bear,
To grunt and sweat under a weary life,
But that the dread of something after death,
The undiscovered Country, from whose bourn
No Traveller returns, Puzzles the will,
And makes us rather bear those ills we have,
Than fly to others that we know not of.
Thus Conscience does make Cowards of us all,
And thus the Native hue of Resolution
Is sicklied o'er, with the pale cast of Thought,
And enterprises of great pitch and moment,
With this regard their Currents turn awry,
And lose the name of Action. Soft you now,
The fair Ophelia. Nymph, in thy Orisons
Be all my sins remembered.[4]

wesley snow

is written for the most part in iambic pentameter with blank verse. It is officially the most well known poem in the English language and is simply the first poem I remember.

judyanne

My comment to Stan about the rhyme was a dig at him about the memorability of poems - rhymed versus free form - over which we have a disagreement ...

I'm very aware that Shakespeare wrote much of his work,, especially soliloquies, in blank iambic pentameter....

xxx

Sparrow

I must have more contemporary things than most, as I existed in 1942 and started to remember things from 1944 June 6th, So just think of all those things that have happened to me at the same time as many others, think of the scope I have, where the themes will be joined with others along the way.
I laugh with the children as they say there is no time where they are and many things can happen in an instant, a reason why they can be in several places at once.
Contemporary is a meeting of probability tracts and they can be infinite, good luck with finding the twins to write of,
Yours Ian

S

According to newest theory the only manner in which the "passing" of time exists is by being observed.

Sparrow

I often wondered about that, (not that often).
Just me but there is no way that much on this plain can exist other than in the now.
Many problems here are brought about by remembering the past instead of learning from it.
If we had learned from the past the now would be great and the future better.
Take care both have a lovely day, Yours Ian

S

We're still trying to determine what poetry should be considered "contemporary". At the moment we're posting the first stanza of the first poem you can remember hearing (nursery rhymed excluded). So post the one you recall.

I'm trying to lay the groundwork for going against the grain on defining what pastoral poetry is in this day and age as opposed to the old definition. Keep your shop poem handy though........stan

weirdelf

The blacksmith's boy went out with a rifle
and a black dog running behind.
Cobwebs snatched at his feet,
rivers hindered him,
thorn branches caught at his eyes to make him blind
and the sky turned into an unlucky opal,
but he didn't mind.
I can break branches, I can swim rivers, I can stare out
any spider I meet,
said he to his dog and his rifle.

The blacksmith's boy went over the paddocks
with his old black hat on his head.
Mountains jumped in his way,
rocks rolled down on him,
and the old crow cried, You'll soon be dead.
And the rain came down like mattocks.
But he only said,
I can climb mountains, I can dodge rocks, I can shoot an old crow any day,
and he went on over the paddocks.

When he came to the end of the day, the sun began falling,
Up came the night ready to swallow him,
like the barrel of a gun,
like an old black hat,
like a black dog hungry to follow him.
Then the pigeon, the magpie and the dove began wailing
and the grass lay down to pillow him.
His rifle broke, his hat blew away and his dog was gone and the sun was falling.

But in front of the night, the rainbow stood on the mountain,
just as his heart foretold.
He ran like a hare,
he climbed like a fox;
he caught it in his hands, the colours and the cold -
like a bar of ice, like the column of a fountain,
like a ring of gold.
The pigeon, the magpie and the dove flew up to stare,
and the grass stood up again on the mountain.

The blacksmith's boy hung the rainbow on his shoulder
instead of his broken gun.
Lizards ran out to see, snakes made way for him,
and the rainbow shone as brightly as the sun.
All the world said, Nobody is braver, nobody is bolder,
nobody else has done
anything equal to it. He went home as easy as could be
with the swinging rainbow on his shoulder.
Judith Wright :

R

raj

10 years 2 months ago

I happened to stroll through this alley
and found a lot of stuff worthy
for me to stove away in the banks
and draw on it somewhere down the line

I would call this stream the VIP Lounge
where the thoroughbreds are having a good chat..

Regards,

S

your dropping by the alley makes you as much a member as anybody else lol. Some here are indeed thoroughbreds but I consider myself a simple plow horse........stan

S

As far as I can determine so far most people (except wes who Never follows a crowd lol) seem to recall poetry which wasn't written hundreds of years ago. It will be interesting to see what other poems land here by tomorrow when we will get back to trying to define what contemporary means in poetry

Sparrow

We were taught to recite poetry and commandments also parts of the bible when I was a child, also the times tables amongst many other rhymes to remember weights and measures and distances still ring in my mind.
Now I am older I still hold in my mind many of them such as:-
"Oh to be in England now that April is there"
Then Mark 12 verse 29:-
Love thy neighbour as thyself.
Inches, feet, yards, rods, poles and perches, shout to be included.
Strange how the rods poles and perches locked in my mind, each being five and a half yards, the pole of a punt I believe is five and a half yards, on the river Cam. one fifth of "a chain".
(Cricket Pitch length one chain 22 yards)
Many things race in my mind when needed bless the rhyme taught in a sing song way at my village school.
I loved the memory of these places and their use to me over the years, a poetry of life, I wish they would bring it back today.
Yours with love of all things, Ian

Rula

Rula

10 years 2 months ago

my real encounter with any real poetry other than the nursery rhymes but I guess it was strangely enough something from Robert Frost as there was in my parent's library a collection of his best works. But really can't remember a one in particular.

Rula

My parents live thousands of miles away. In a totally different country. Fortunately we both are still in Asia. :)

S

I think it safe to say that contemporary could be defined as something which happens during a reader/writer's lifetime. This makes it fairly fluid and a tiny bit different for each of us according to our age.

I'm on my way to work but will be back this afternoon and we'll start examining the word "pastoral", what it is formally defined as, hoe its meaning has changed over time and what it means/should mean now.

S

I've research a good bit concerning what "pastoral poetry" is defined as. And there were a few variations but when all definitions were taken into consideration they pretty much boiled down to this :
Pastoral adj.
1. having the simplicity, charm,serenity or other characteristics attributed to rural areas
2.pertaining to country or life in the country; rural;rustic
3.portraying or suggesting idyllically the life of shepherds
4. relating to a pastor or the duties of a pastor
5.used for pasture, as land
Pastoral, noun
1. a poem, play or the like dealing with the life of shepherds or simple rural life in general; a bucolic
2. a treatise on the duties of a pastor

While researching this three things kept coming up. First was that all definitions referenced shepherds; the second thing was the country or rural aspects were continuously referred to as idealized; the third thing was the insistence that ALL pastoral poetry dealt with ONLY rural subjects.

Well, I have a few of my own ideas about what effective contemporary pastoral poetry should be defined as but before stating them I'd like everybody to state what They think effective contemporary pastoral poetry is and concentrate on the pastoral part since we've already gone over the effective and contemporary part.

wesley snow

I live in suburbia. I have eighteen horses on my property and four dogs (as well as a couple of birds, but they don't count).
On one side my neighbor has twenty four horses and two dogs (no birds). On the other side are four dogs and two goats (both nannies thank goodness). Beyond that my neighbor has a cattery, license and all. Thirty cats and counting. Again beyond that the old man has some dozen or so goats and some chickens (also a pheasant for whatever reason).
I call this modern pastoral. Technically I live in a rural part of the city. It looks like suburbia... except for all the rural shit.

S

are treading close to the statement I'll be making in a few days which will likely cause a firestorm of protest lol.

S

The accepted definition of pastoral poetry leans very heavily on the poem being about sheep herders and idealized scenes and only about country or rural stuff. This likely was pretty effective back when the overwhelming majority of people lived in the country. They could easily relate to all things rural and likely dreamed of an idyllic existence in the country as opposed to the actuality of such a life. And the minority who lived in urban areas didn't know better than to think the idealizations presented by poets of the time was reality.

But that was then. In this age of mass communication of all sorts, anybody who cares to know is aware of the sometimes unpleasant aspects of country living . So to connect with them one needs to write in a manner which reflects reality. They're not interested in some shepherd musing about who lives on the moon nor are many going to be fooled into thinking nature is a Disney type existence. They Do hunger to have the real world being presented in a manner which leaves them with a sense of tranquility.

This sense of tranquility ( and often escapism) is what has always made pastoral poetry popular. So where does that leave us, the writers, in trying to define succinctly what contemporary effective pastoral poetry is? In my opinion it should be defined as any poem which gives an accurate depiction of the writer's surroundings, rural OR urban which leaves the reader with a feeling of tranquility. I now duck behind the dumpster to shelter from the storm of people yelling "How dare you?"

wesley snow

come back out... you're safe here.

Personally I'm impressed with the summation of a form in a way I'd never looked at before.
My job then would be to produce poetry that describes my life (in all its rural glory) while focusing on the best parts.

S

One doesn't Have to focus on the best parts. There is some pastoral poetry which is utterly sad yet when read leaves the reader feeling serene because the protagonist accepts his/her plight. And there are poems which simply describe an every day activity which leaves it up to the reader to decide how they should be taken. A quick off the cuff example of both summed up in a single stanza would be :
Old wounds having now caught up with me
I find that I can not now go on
to the place where I'd rather be
so I return to where I was at dawn

This location doesn't have to be rural. Protagonist might well be walking down a city side walk as easily as some sylvan path yet either way the stanza has the same emotional impact. Resignation followed by calm acceptance.

S

Time to start actually doing something lol. We're going to start putting all this theory into practice. I'd like everybody to think of a location which has always brought serenity to you. Now think up a good title to describe this place. Then write the first stanza of a poem about this place which "sets the stage" for the coming write. Limit the stanza to 4-6 lines and post your title and stanza here on the shop thread. Do Not Go Farther In Writing your poem. Why? because you won't be the one completing it. Once all have posted their title and beginning I'll assign somebody else to write the main body of the poem(excluding the summary last stanza).
In this first exercise keep in mind that it must be effective in grabbing the reader's attention and be set in the present . So let's get started with this phase. I'll also be doing the same thing but won't post until most of ya'll have done so in order to not unduly influence what you write. Have fun.....stan

Rula

Rula

10 years 2 months ago

It isn't that big...my home I mean,
but it's as sweet as honey could call.
When children's noise goes loud that brings
calmness, love and peace to my soul.

Rula

To re_write mine Stan? I am sorry, I think I haven't got your reply and why isn't it good enough for others to add to?

Rula

You said it's not restricted to rural, but urban surrounding as well. Are you trying to get me out of my comfort zone as I have never been to a true rural property, though I would love to.

judyanne

Stan was complimenting your stanza - saying pastoral emotion can even be depicted inside - the write doesn't have to specically be about the outdoors - really, it is possible to be described, these days, anywhere one finds peace... even (if not especially) around the hearthside

love judy
xxx

Rula

Thank you Judy for telling me. This how I understood it, but when he said that Ian's writing could be continued by another I suspected that mine isn't good enough.

S

It seems stuff keeps getting lost in cultural differences. My comment was intended to be a compliment for having shown that the "formal" definitions of what pastoral is limited to do not and should not be applied to what is meant by pastoral in this day and age. The old definition limited it to rural and usually nature based poetry which is often not effective among urban dwellers today. So leave your beginning as is, it's fine.

S

Try keeping notes so you can keep up with all of this lol. According to my notes you are supposed to write the end of My Sweet Home by Rula and the middle of Part of the Earth by Ian. Have you checked the pastoral poetry blog to see where things stand?

Rula

I think it is a good idea if you always add a direct link to that blog. I think many don't have on their dashboard the "blog's block" , so they don't see the blog unless they go to "track all site activity" or to you page under your work.

For every one's easier reference, here is a direct link to Stan's "Pastoral shop blog" where everyone is supposed to submit the beginning, the middle and the end of the poem.
https://www.neopoet.com/scribbler/blog/fri-2015-02-20-1342

Sparrow

I will walk among the trailing boughs
They seem to stretch out to touch me
Yet I know it is a gesture of their feelings
Here in my wooded glade I am at peace

See I is a good boy and done it write LOL.
Yours Ian

judyanne

the busy city street, the quiet country lane
I know which one of these that I would choose
only one conveys me away from cluttered pain
so watch me as I don my walking shoes

xxx

wesley snow

The last true peaceful moment of my life
I spent with daddy, sis and daddy's wife.
As husband daddy made his family strong
and passing o'er that bridge I knew no wrong
could be on either side of Kansas City.
At midnight I was young and bright and witty.
"The Stranger on the Shore" was playing loud
and when it stopped I knew I'd joined man's crowd.

S

I'm tempted to pick this one for my choice lol. But that wouldn't be fair. Also consider changing man's crowd to men's crowd.....just reads a bit better to me......stan

S

lets go ahead with assigning of others to complete the main body of our poems. Do Not Write the end of the poems. That will be assigned back to original author lol. So here goes assignment #1 Wes, you work on Ian's beginning. I will make one assignment per day.This will give folks a bit of time to post without competition. Post the beginning and main body which you add Here only. We will await completion of poem before posting entire poem on stream.

weirdelf

Hope you can still find someone to fill out my middle.

"The Numinous in Luminosity"

Bright brittle light allows no lies
on my country's ancient, hard worn lands
where indifferent spirits stay uncaring hands
from us who swarm it like so many flies.
Unlike the misty intimacy of Eire
for the numinous is ever present there.
.
.
.

S

In a rocker near the sliding door
he stares outside this winter's day
not saying what he's looking for.
look close, his eyes are far away.

weirdelf

I understand that nothing is posted to the Stream until middle and endings are in place.
Perhaps we could streamline that a little, allowing us to post our beginnings as workshop posts and our collaborators adding on the same page. This central thread has become somewhat unwieldy.

S

Not a bad idea but if put on stream in an incomplete form each beginning and such would also need an explanation tat it was a shop poem still under development wouldn't it? If this could be done automatically it still would work but I don't think that is possible is it?

weirdelf

we already put the name of the shop in brackets after the title.
So eg My Pastorale (Pastoral WS Verse 1)

wesley snow

It done got big.

Here is my feeble attempt to follow Ian.

Part of the Earth
I will walk among the trailing boughs
They seem to stretch out to touch me
Yet I know it is a gesture of their feelings
Here in my wooded glade I am at peace
Each creature here knows my true name,
for freely have I told it to them.
Faith, trust, love and patience:
these four are all I’ve ever sought.

S

is wondering why I'm doing things the way I am. One part of the shop's title is "effective". It is my hope that by having poems written by collaboration that all three people who work on each poem will see that there are multiple ways to write effectively.

weirdelf

Still, to keep this thread from getting too confusing whoever writes the first stanza posts it to the stream, ticking this workshop of course, then whoever writes the second posts it to that thread instead and the original poet edits it in after their stanza, and so on the third. Many stanzas could be managed this way, each poem having its own thread.
I think it could be the way to go. Things will get lost in this huge thread.

S

Jess your idea might just work but I'm growing tired and need to think it though with clear mind tomorrow. As to posting only one revision per day, there is method to this madness lol. I want everybody in the shop to read what everybody else is doing and if 3-4 poems were being done at once I fear somebody's efforts will be over looked. It IS a bit plodding at this stage but the next and final stage should make up for it.......stan

wesley snow

I have a life that is increasingly demanding. I like the chance to move a little slower, so I don't miss things (which happens all too often). It would be helpful if there were someway to tag the poem admissions on the thread to make them easy to find. I don't even know how that could be done.

Thanks Jess. It wasn't my style, but easier than expected.

S

Let's try this. I'll post a blog titled pastoral workshop. If everybody would be so kind as to post their beginnings on it and NOT leave commentary then each time an addition is made to a poem it can be placed as a reply below each poem. This should make it easier to keep up with each poem as it progresses. So I'll now run over to post the blog and put the beginning of my poem there. Thank you all for doing the same.

S

You may now work on completing Ian's beginning which wes has put the main body to. Remember by the end of the poem the reader should feel at peace or tranquil. Also be sure to await wes transferring his "main body" to the just created blog set up to keep these poems under development to themselves......stan

Sparrow

Your continuation of our joint piece was lovely when the others have completed I shall stream the actual poem that was written for this workshop but only the first stanza was used, once again thank you,
Yours as always Ian xx

Sparrow

I transferred both parts on the same Blog comment hope that is OK it will save space, Take care,
Yours Ian

Sparrow

Whose poem do I have a go at
the middle
or end write.
My keys are inactive at the moment
and need tasks lol,
Yours Ian

S

Since vandiemspeak and Mokobane have apparently become inactive i guess that leaves you and me to swap out with beginnings. Since I'm shooting for only one continuation per day I guess lades first applies.......stan

Rula

Rula

10 years 2 months ago

What do I need to do now boss?

Rula

Rula

10 years 2 months ago

I have to complete your beginning, if I get you right.

S

Didn't mean to assign you two main bodies.......for some reason that doesn't sound quite right does it? lol. You have completed your main body assignment. Your next assignment will be to furnish the ending to a poem. I'll consult my notes and tell you which on tomorrow (Sunday).

alidzain

Am I too late to join this workshop?

Alid

S

The present part of this shop was set up with there being an even number of participants......But you could well review everything here to this point then join in when the next and final part is started which will Not require an even number of participants. Hopefully the final stage will begin toward the end of next week. If this suits you, I'll sign you right up so you can add your commentary as you go through the discussion part......stan

weirdelf

my piece of heaven

the busy city street, the quiet country lane
I know which one of these that I would choose
only one conveys me away from cluttered pain
so watch me as I don my walking shoes

As busy buildings fade with each unforced tread
and the raucous noise becomes a freeform mantra
I slowly lose my constant source of dread
and all the world becomes my growing tantra

S

Unless my notes are wrong you have not yes been assigned a main body yet. If this is so you can take Jess's beginning to work on

S

In a quandry. According to my notes everybody who is active has furnished a beginning. Also every beginning has now been assigned somebody to furnish a main body for somebody else's beginning except me. And I'm left with beginning I posted but nobody to write the main body as well as me having nobody else's beginning to furnish a main body for.

If there is somebody who has not been assigned a main body please let me know.

judyanne

You've just given me Jess' s main body (lol - poem that is ... grinning)
Why don't you take that and I'll take yours?
xxx

S

Now I'll see what I can do with a free verse lol

S

here are some poetry titles to think about and wonder what the heck they're for lol :
Sunrise In The City
New Cut Hay
Evening In The 'Burbs
Falling Snow
Cool Summer Rain
Storm's Remains
Old Plow Horse
Stray Cat
Whirl Wind (either city or country)
Sidewalk
Wooded Path

*hint try thinking about how these can be defined and/or interpreted

Sparrow

I have thought of these things and written a line or two on each when we have finished the other part I shall stream them for the workshop, Still need to know who I am writing the end piece for on the last part,
Yours Ian

Rula

that we choose one and write a poem about?
If so, my choice is "falling snow". At least something I have experienced recently.

S

How much more generic could I get? But I'm flexible. So to save your choosing and also let you write what you want I'll assign you a title not on list. Please write one titled "Pastoral Poem Number One".

judyanne

I'd better pull my finger out and do good now eh'?

Pastoral poem number one, sounds a little like symphony in g major number one...
or like there might be more to come

either way i like the idea lol
thank you
xxx

weirdelf

and it still confusing. Forgive me, I'm on pain meds with a broken clavicle but I still think this would have been easier posting to workshop rather than blog. I don't know whose end I am supposed to write.

judyanne

i have posted the two you and I have done
judy and jess and jess and judy
they're now waiting for the third person to add to them

just go and enjoy reading them all
everyone has worked some great poems imo

xxx

S

now to assign rest of the endings. Now everybody keep in mind that for shop purposes a pastoral poem should leave the reader feeling a sense of peace or at least satisfaction. I mention this because this is often achieved in the last part of a poem.

Jess, to keep your anxiety level down, why don't you supply an end for Wes?

S

Don't choose yet! We still need to complete the endings of the collaborative poems lol.

S

Would you be so kind as to write completion for Judy's poem "My piece of heaven"?

Sparrow

Yes will do so immediately, take care out there our love to you and Susan,
Yours Ian and the Children.

wesley snow

I fear I may have missed so much. Like Ian, could I be told what poem I finish? Or have I not been assigned yet?
The mind is gone. I think that's very pastoral (peaceful anyway).

S

As each poem in the collaborative part of the shop is completed, would the person who furnished the beginning please put the poem on stream with notation (collaborative pastoral poem) next to title and at the bottom of the poem list who furnished each part.

PS if anybody has not already been assigned a main body and ending to do, please let me know........stan

Rula

but no one did the middle, do you want me to do both. I have already done sir Wesley's. so would you like first to assign the middle to someone..or?

Rula

I think Khalid was asking to join, weren't you khalid?

S

My notes showed Judy doing the main body. I did a quick trip to blog and see that judy did main body for jess. It seems the only one who hasn't done a main body yet is ME lol. So to get past this segment of shop quickly I'll do main body of my own beginning and you can take it from there. So give me about 10 minutes to write it and put it on blog........stan

S

Since we're about done with the collaborative stuff please refer to the list of titles I listed earlier.Choose one and write a poem for it and post it on stream with the usual (pastoral shop) next to title.Remember it needs to be pastoral, contemporary and effective. BTW part of being effective is giving a poem more than one level of meaning and contemporary means writing a poem set within your own lifetime. So let's see what we've learned and have some fun.

judyanne

You have misrepresented / mistranscribed my part of the poem you have finished of jess' s beginning
Please correct it
don't you use cut and paste?
xxx

S

No I don't use it. Tell me where mistake was made and I'll change it. Sorry, the change was unintentional.

weirdelf

but cut, copy and paste is one of the most basic tools in Windows. You will kick yourself black and blue (I've often wanted to do it for you) once you learn it over all the time you have wasted and mistakes you have made over the years.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhXg4tvIft4

Really mate, there is no excuse. It's as basic as turning your computer on. Do it.

It would also save Neopoet from having to assign you technical supervisors over the most basic tasks.

S

Just as I was on the verge of being comfortable in doing it my old comp melted down and there I was, unable to practice it enough for it to become imprinted in my cortex. And I AM going to become proficient in it if for no other reason than it is a great time saver and saves wear and tear on my index finger

S

First of all thank you all for joining. And second, thank you for bearing with me through the snafus we encountered along the way. I hope everybody enjoyed themselves and got a better understanding about what pastoral poetry means today.
Now for feedback :
1. Did you gain a better understanding of pastoral poetry?
2. Did you learn a few things about making pastoral as well as all poetry more effective?
3. Did you have fun doing so?
4. Do you think stan will Ever become more comp literate?
5. Do you have suggestions on how this could have been done better? (other than tech)
6. Please tell me anything I did wrong.

Here's your chance to both "get even" with me and also make me a better shop leader in the future.

alidzain

I think I need more practice. Wes told me pastoral poem should make the reader feel good but I screwed up big time with my "Stray Cat".

Alid

S

doesn't have to be during a workshop. And wes is correct in that almost any pastoral poem should leave the reader with a joyful or tranquil feeling. I'll get back and read your shop poem again but I suspect you could add a stanza or two to the end in order to achieve what you need to. A pastoral poem need not start off peaceful, indeed I'm about to post my shop poem which begind otherwise then slowly transforms to a feeling of peace.......I hope lol............stan

weirdelf

1. Yes
2. Yes
3. oh yes!
4. You fucking better or I will come round to your place and teach you through the classic "School of Hard Knocks" method.
5. No, you did good. I finally understood the method in your madness. May I suggest that you make sure all the completed poems get posted to the Stream with the "Effective Contemporary Pastoral poetry [Let's start]" workshop ticked so we can find them all at >> View all poems submitted to this workshop
https://www.neopoet.com/workshop/view/15771
6. Just the tech stuff, mate. Like I said, you will kick yourself black and blue once you realise how easy it is.

Thanks again.

S

I'm one of those who learns new skills by repetition. The irksome thing about Copy and paste is that right before my old comp died I was starting to feel comfortable enough to start using it. But then came a 3 week spell with no comp and the confidence and such faded from disuse. Then I got back on line and found myself covered up both there and in real life and had no time to reacquaint myself with something which I already realized was a great time saver........But I now have a short window during which I can try to regain competence.

I had assumed everybody was clicking the pastoral shop tab before posting. Guess I'll check and PM folks who haven't. Who knows somebody might want to review them all some day

Rula

Rula

10 years 1 month ago

1- depends on your judgment on my piece
2- yes
3- kind of ... I was just afraid to mess up other's pieces.
4- I bet he'd at least try.
5- No suggestions
6- Don't restict the participants with titles. Let them free to write what they feel. Especially that the first ex. has some kind of restriction. Or, you can suggest, are you listening? It's good to suggest titles that can be used or not. For the same reason mentioned earlier.

Nothing to add.
Are you punishing me and that's why not streaming "My Sweet home" yet?

S

I think everybody was afraid of messing up others' work in the collaborative section. This is a GOOD thing in such works! It makes people take time to think of whether their addition melds smoothly. And I think the results were way above average.

As to my supplying title, I actually thought this would make it easier on people because it would give them a starting point. And I wasn't clear I guess that if somebody wanted to use another title they could. Indeed Judy's title you might notice was not on the list lol

And NO you should know better than think I'm punishing you (hmmm.....but you Did put me through the grinder in the sonnet shop.......just kidding). I'll get My Sweet Home posted today

S

I've been informed that some of ya'll forgot to hit the workshop tab when posting your final poem on stream. Please do so. It makes it a lot easier for those who might want to review all of them at one place

alidzain

I've posted another poem for the workshop and no, Judy, Rula, its not a sonnet, my mind too messed up with the pain to do one properly. Its entitled "The Dream". Still not sure if its good enough, so I need your guidance to help me polish it.

Alid

Description:Defining and writing pastoral poetry in a manner suitable for the present era

Leader: scribbler
Moderator(s): wesley snow

Objectives:To expose writers to the pastoral style of poetry as it is written today and give each a chance to try their hand at it.

Level of expertise: Open to all

Subject matter:To become effective at writing pastoral poetry in a manner which relates to contemporary readers